Carl cox said he'd never use ableton during a live set..
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jostitosti
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« Reply #15 on: October 30, 2007, 02:28:41 AM »

Don't get me wrong I don't want to slack off ableton DJs, but I'm curious: "What's the skill in ableton DJing?" I have no experience with it...
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« Reply #16 on: October 30, 2007, 04:59:56 AM »

Nothing really.  Its like itunes, it frees you up to check your email during a show.   laugh

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« Reply #17 on: October 30, 2007, 05:14:54 AM »

Don't get me wrong I don't want to slack off ableton DJs, but I'm curious: "What's the skill in ableton DJing?" I have no experience with it...

As far as I noticed is that "ableton-Dj's" play more songs in less time, make more their own edits. . . so it creates a kinda different sets I think.

On the other side long tracks with their own dynamics are less played.

I noticed lately this difference when I saw BenMono laying before Robert Owens. Ben played al kinda soulfull catchy elektrobreaks. Big filters over it, mashing up with short bits of other tracks. . . . Robert just played tracks (using CD decks). And let them build the vibe. I took 20 min to even take the crowd with it. . . But when he had them, and started to sing over the tracks, the crowd responded far more directly to his set and content.

For me it will always be important to be able to let the music speak, whatever I use. For me vinyl helps the best because I have to choose with my heart to bring a selection to the crowd. That's all a have, but it helps me tobring it with love.
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« Reply #18 on: October 30, 2007, 05:41:08 AM »

Don't get me wrong I don't want to slack off ableton DJs, but I'm curious: "What's the skill in ableton DJing?" I have no experience with it...

The answer is kind of strange:  "As much skill as the DJ puts into it."

There's a lot of guys -- not famous guys, coincidentally -- that show up with an Ableton setup and use it as a beatmatching shortcut.  They typically don't do well, either creatively or in terms of audience appreciation.

Other guys bring it:  live remixing, improvisation, etc...  They do better.

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« Reply #19 on: October 30, 2007, 06:49:25 AM »

I went ableton... but now I'm back to traktor... a lot of the stuff I can do w/ ableton I can do with traktor, just missing out on using custom VST effects and such... but I prefer traktor pretty much solely because I can cue up exactly where I need to quickly... but I'm also doing a lot of mixed sets of hiphop and dance ... I think if I were doing strictly dance sets, I would go back to ableton because I loved cut tracks up and doing my own edits and builds and such but it just becomes a lot of work when you're jumping between a lot of different tempos and styles...  Plus the Browser in traktor is so much better than ableton...
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« Reply #20 on: October 30, 2007, 07:31:30 AM »

Respect to deeflash! Make senses to use tracktor when yr djing hiphop as well!

Ableton is an awesome bit of kit and i find i keep learning and trying new things all the time.

Ableton will only do what a dj or performer creativily sets and controls it to do. Carl cox was know for using 3 decks now can use 8 or more.

An example of where the skill is in ableton would be how the dj programs the midi controller! Theres lots of options !

Dave and others with argue that its more like performing than djing. Which is a fair argument. But cheating it aint! Those who say its cheating either don't really understand how ableton works or have never fully had a go with it!

On the other hand i can see why folk might be disapointed (including myself) with Carl Cox using it because he is known for a particular style energy when on the decks. But lets see what he comes up with!

Check ableton.com and the artists section to see what else is possible!
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« Reply #21 on: October 30, 2007, 08:25:44 AM »

Thnx for the response. When reading GLs post, another question rose. There's a lot of talk about technical stuff and features and what not.... but what does this do to the music? There is a danger there that the DJ becomes some kind of kit geek, who'll get carried away with all his gear and features in the DJ booth, but does not notice the crowd so much anymore.
What about the crowd? How do you use the features and posibilties of ableton to create an atmosphere or move a crowd?
Why would the crowd be interested in live remixes or edits produced by the DJ him/herself? (Again I'm curious and not trying to prove anything). How are all the arguments to use ableton contributing to the vibe?
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« Reply #22 on: October 30, 2007, 09:03:49 AM »

What about the crowd? How do you use the features and posibilties of ableton to create an atmosphere or move a crowd?

Even with a traditional kit, it's still just sliders and knobs. The crowd doesn't know what you are doing technically and it doesn't care. They want to hear good music and have a good time. In most cases, that also includes finding a member of the opposite sex and some alcohol.

It's more of a case of the argument just doesn't matter. Use the tools that allow you to do your job the best. For some, that's a traditional kit. For others, it's not.
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« Reply #23 on: October 30, 2007, 09:11:15 AM »

There is a danger there that the DJ becomes some kind of kit geek, who'll get carried away with all his gear and features in the DJ booth, but does not notice the crowd so much anymore.
What about the crowd? How do you use the features and posibilties of ableton to create an atmosphere or move a crowd?
Why would the crowd be interested in live remixes or edits produced by the DJ him/herself? (Again I'm curious and not trying to prove anything). How are all the arguments to use ableton contributing to the vibe?

I Agree it could look that way. I also agree with dave. We have started to debate this a bit here on tasty..

But look at people like chemical brothers / justice, simian disco etc who also use a lot of equipment twidle knobs etc but also create alot of energy in there performances.. underworld would be another..

also if the edits/remixes are good then that will feed into the atmosphere. after all music is used to create atmosphere!

personally i dont argue that ableton should be the standard for djing. its one possible tool i use it alot at the moment. but i'd also like to get some thing like a two deck set up!

We should be excited the last few years has seen Djing take a whole new twist!
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« Reply #24 on: October 30, 2007, 09:11:39 AM »

some DJs will sample to crowd during their set and do some live loops of them or others will do live looping of a singer's vocals or something and then use them throughout the set...  Plus with Ableton doing the technical stuff of beatmatching, keeping sync, etc... that frees the DJ to interface with the crowd with eye contact, vocally, etc...  and if the DJ knows his ableton template well (hopefully he'll set it up before his gig  Grin) he won't need to look at his screen all that much...  once I have a groove going I can use my BCR2000 to control ableton's effects and the trigger finger to select clips and fire them off and it wouldn't even look like I'm using the laptop for much more than when the guys use serato or traktor... 

more creative DJs / performers will throw in some live drum loops they make on the fly, or synth loops they make on the fly using midi controllers etc... 

But yeah, from a strictly DJ standpoint, once you have your setup solid, you just drag and drop the tracks you wanna use, and then you use your controllers to do everything else where you hardly look at the screen... but yeah, it is completely possible to get lost in tweaking, controlling, mixing, etc and lose the contact with crowd, but I don't see how that is much different than with two decks and a mixer...  a lot of guys can keep their eyes on the decks and mixer all night long and not even interface with the crowd once and it's the same issue... 

I agree with Dave, whatever works for the DJ is good with me... if the house rocks w/ Ableton, the house rocks w/ Ableton, if they rock the place with an iTunes playlist, and everyone has a great time they obviously did what they were paid to do... 
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« Reply #25 on: October 30, 2007, 09:28:48 AM »

Good for old coxy, I have completely embraced the idea of laptops whilst DJing, I have moved over yet but I'm going that way as CD's take time to organise and burn

Carl was demonstrating his 'real' skills  Wink back at sunrise partys in 89 using 3 SL1210s so it's not like he has anything to prove to anyone anymore
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jostitosti
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« Reply #26 on: October 30, 2007, 09:45:50 AM »

It's more of a case of the argument just doesn't matter. Use the tools that allow you to do your job the best. For some, that's a traditional kit. For others, it's not.
I guess that's what I'm curious about... Why do you choose for ableton rather than cds or vinyl? It is just from a practical (not dragging records or cds around, having access to your complete music archive) and financial (mp3s are cheaper) point of view or are there other arguments?

The question would be more like: "Why does ableton allow you to do your job at best?"
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« Reply #27 on: October 30, 2007, 11:02:44 AM »

it's more flexible at times. it's easier to find and grab tracks. it's easy to add your own parts to existing tracks. Tons of reasons, but none of them mean it's the perfect tool for everyone.

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« Reply #28 on: October 30, 2007, 11:20:20 AM »

I guess it really comes down to, try it... if you like it, great. if not, go back to what you like. :-)
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« Reply #29 on: October 30, 2007, 11:21:13 AM »

 Cool yes why not!
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