Thomas Road Baptist Church (Jerry Falwell's church). Here's why: If Jerry was "Christian" enough to open a house for unwed mothers both as a place to live and a means to a college education AND if Jerry could be good friends with porn kingpin Larry Flynt, there is no reason in the world why a prostitute could not feel loved by his congregation.

OK, that's 6. Who's next?

Yup... Andy's great. So... that's at least 3 churches from Atlanta, the heart of the bible-thumpers all the emergent types are against. All three of them are also SBC too.

Nothing wrong with Rob bells church, just said I listen to him, haven't listen to Jakes in quite a few years, but everyone has a story and its valid, and I wanted to hear it.  I like to get a well rounded approach to what I am learning, and its like reading commentary, everyone has their perspective.  I look at Jewish culture, as well as talking about books written by Eugene Peterson, to John bevere.  Jakes story is relevant, just like mine is, just like daves is, you gotta be who you are, even if the emergent church or the AG don't like you, or someone on a forum .  My best friend is a Pastor in Sanfrancisco and daily we talk about ways to revive the church and bring it into an "orignal intent" focus.  We need work, anyway you look at it, and you need everyone.  We were never meant to operate in a way that someone woule come into a place and feel comfortable, becuase the church is just people, not a building, or modern coffe shop with singing.  People don't go to church anymore, the days of non christians just walking in are over, so in some way its a irrelevant question.  The problem is that chruch has become a building, ritual, and not people, although there is a realization of this of late, its way behind.   

Actually I do go to GR first assembly of God, Michigan, so I am in the midwest,a nd add that to the list .  I can only speak for my own church I guess.  For me it comes down to looking at the church as people.  I don't agree or like everything that goes on all time, but I made a committment to people there in effort to invoke community.  I didn't leave when Rob Bell's church Mars Hill took off down the road or when they took an offering I didn't like.  Changing something and making it better means from the inside.  You have to use your judgment I guess, if your church isn't operating correctly than maybe you need to jam or maybe you need the courage to make changes, but that is harder so usually people leave.  Usually people are looking to get something out of chruch rather than give to it, so those feeling emerge.  Daves right though Martin Luthers attempt was unity.  teh iron sharpens iron is out of context, rattling off an opinion or posting on a forum gripe about a church isn't that.  Its describing a relationship, real, loving, and mentoring.

So I don't misunderstand the comment are you slamming Joyce Meyer, curious?  Paul talked quite a bit about sin management and how to maintain the walk, and how to live to avoid the trap of sin, not much about falling in love with God in there.  Try song of soloman though

you're joking, right?  1. i know Jerry was a 'good christian'. His public persona & his constant appearances on shows to debate things he was ILL equipped to debate gave him a very, very bad name in the secular community.
2. Jerry is not his congregation. 

since you're being a wiseguy by being so literal, heres' the list i quoted to MAKE SURE you're getting your church count right:

1 groups of people operating and living in community
2 true community,
3 a place to share common goals,
4 and help each other along the way. 
5 your community is hearing of the "realness" that is filling your church.  (**this is key. )

and: 6. Its the way the new testament church grew so well. ( i assumed this to mean new christians/seekers coming in on a daily/weekly/monthly basis)


 i went to a church that did lots of "good stuff". that doesn't mean "undesirables" were welcome in there day to day...i remember seeing a biker dude outside smoking and everyone stepping right around him & not saying a word to him except for me.

you're missing my point anyway. i give up.

================================

by the way, you ought to allow spiritual & political discussions again  Here's why:

noone's going to be prepared for the "real world" when they are challenged (at a gig,etc)

noone's going to grow further than their denomination.  it's healthy to hear other viewpoints, because that's how the real world is....

oh my gosh, this is an awesome forum!  and wow... what a thread... holy crap.

I need to carve out like a day, and just read this thread, and post something thoughtful... unfortunately, I'm too busy getting ready for the big Club Worship FreshFire ReLaunch... so you guys get to miss out on all my amazing insight...  (oh there i go again with the self depricating sarcasm)  seriously, i love this kind of conversation where people get passionate about what they believe 

Can I say first of all, that I miss all you guys, especially the ones ive met in personally and stuff...   Cstone was great... and I really enjoyed camping with you guys, and getting to know about your families and whats going on in your lives and stuff... seriously, be in touch. 

this original post for this thread held a very intersting topic for discussion that I really want to weigh in on... ive been mulling this issue of Christian -vs- secluar music in my head for lots of years, and ive come to some really interesting and solid conclusions... but it would take too much time to write it all out.  maybe I can make a formula.

Music=sound waves=tones=science+art=media=the wineskin=spiritually neutral (its like a medium, or a wineskin... the music can not be good or bad in and of itself)  its like a tool... it can be used either for good or evil, depending how you wield it, and how you pair it with other things.  If it makes people sin, it could be bad, if it encourages someone, it is possibly good.  Instrumental music can't have a good spirit or a bad spirit.  Of course songs contain emotion... but thats also neutral.

Lyrics=content=a message=influence=the wine   Lyrics come in a wide spectrum from worship to God, to worship of the Devil... and everything in between.  Some songs have lyrics that are completely neutral... not good, and not bad... just neutral... so those are easy to place...  so lyrically there is a wide spectrum of trash to beauty etc.

Associations with the artist=OK  this is where things get messy.  i dont have time to post on this one.  I choose to try to support artists that are creating neutral to positive songs, and I try to not support those artists who create negative songs.  Typically (but with exception) this means I am buying Christian music.   

back to the more recent postings on this thread...

Davo, you are the coolest...  I agree with Davo, that threads with spiritual conversations should be only shut down when people are getting really personally violent or something.  Sort of like how Dave Richards just attacked my good friend Davo...   OK, i know it wasnt meant as an attack, but thats only cuz I know Mr. Richards, and he is quite an amazing cat, and he has a natural sharpness to him that God created... like a freakin prophet or something.  So he is trying to correct what he views as an attitude... and what I am perceiving as passion.     

I admit that I didnt read all the posts... I would like to, hopfully later.  So I could be off base, but regarding posts being locked... the political ones, i agree you can shut them down.  I'm strongly opinionated on thats stuff... but you really don't want to know about it.

But spirituality is different... Iron sharpens Iron... we need to be prepared to give an answer for what we believe, and you got to admit that this group of people that hangs out here is a unique bunch... I have lots of local friends that sharpen me too... but this tastyfresh group is unique in my life, and much more diverse and on the edge than the circles I hang out locally.

I think its perfectly legitimate for someone to have a strong passionate opinion on a topic, and why not be able to express it here on the internet right here.  So what if it seems like they are not being open minded.  So I say, DAVO post on buddy.  And stay passionate about what you believe, even if Dave Richards is shocked and disappointed.

oh... did i mention that I love you guys... we all need to get together sometime soon.  Next post is going to be a shout out to all my C-stone homies.

peace
jeff

so spiritual discussions are abounding again.  hmmm


might be a good thing.


doug

thanks, Jeff. It's been tooo long,buddy! I gotta get out to PA some time soon 


i won't go into all of your post, Dave,but i want to answer a couple things:
i'm not trying to be pious or inflexible. i could say the same for you since you don't see things my way,but that's silly. we have a difference of opinion, that's all

I don't have a low opinion of anyone here. What i'm trying to say is it's a natural thing to want to talk to people about stuff that interests you. It's strange an unnatural (to me) to start talking about music made by christians and ministering to people through it without talking about other spiritual things. After all, it all ties together into our worldview...