"Christian" as an adjective
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Author Topic: "Christian" as an adjective  (Read 1986 times)
noah
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« on: May 15, 2007, 09:27:22 AM »
Years ago I did this a lot.  Now I think it's pretty dumb and even dangerous.  I would like to talk about why people would want to use the word "Christian" as an adjective.
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« Reply #1 on: May 15, 2007, 09:29:23 AM »
Does describing yourself as a Christian count? BTW, this is a very gray area of discussion here. All I have to do is ask "why do you think this is dumb and even dangerous?" and we're off to the races.
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« Reply #2 on: May 15, 2007, 09:53:18 AM »
i think this is a valid discussion in light of the rules, especially if we talk about "christian electronic producers"

if i say i am a christian, that is a noun.  if i say i am a christian _________, that is an adjective.

rob bell put it great, in my opinion, in velvet elvis when he said "christian is a wonderful noun and a horrible adjective."

but i'm sure this discussion could go way off the rules charts quickly.
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« Reply #3 on: May 15, 2007, 10:00:13 AM »
Its like saying if you're an engineer or something, saying "Hi, I'm Bob/Pete/Geoff [delete as appropiate]. I'm a Christian engineer!" I don't think that they would go around engineering conferences saying: "I'm a Christian engineer!". They would say: "I'm an engineer".

Likewise, we just happen to be Christians who produce/DJ dance music. Just because we're Christian and produce, doesn't mean we're Christian producers.

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"christian is a wonderful noun and a horrible adjective."

^ great quote!
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« Reply #4 on: May 15, 2007, 11:43:43 AM »
I'm just asking why is it bad and dangerous. Tell me that first and back it up before I give you my opinion. Smiley

If you want to have a real discussion about this, you have to explain your initial thoughts first. Right now, I think you're basically asking something along the lines of "Do you think beating your wife is a bad thing?"

The question is presupposing and forcing a specific answer. If you say "Yes, I do think beating my wife is a bad thing." you just admitted to committing acts of violence against her. If you say "I don't beat my wife." the accusation is easily "So you deny it."
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« Reply #5 on: May 15, 2007, 03:39:59 PM »
Quote from: Dave Richards on May 15, 2007, 11:43:43 AM
I'm just asking why is it bad and dangerous. Tell me that first and back it up before I give you my opinion. Smiley

If you want to have a real discussion about this, you have to explain your initial thoughts first. Right now, I think you're basically asking something along the lines of "Do you think beating your wife is a bad thing?"

The question is presupposing and forcing a specific answer. If you say "Yes, I do think beating my wife is a bad thing." you just admitted to committing acts of violence against her. If you say "I don't beat my wife." the accusation is easily "So you deny it."



no it's not!

gheesh dave...

i'll tell you why:

1. the term by definition is a NOUN. it's who we are, not what we do.
          the only "christian" plumbers/car mechanics/etc i know are those who advertise on christian stations to get lots of business.   i have no idea if they actually are a disciple of Christ.  putting a fish symbol on your business sign or writing psalm-inspired lyrics doesn't make you a christian. following Jesus does. accepting His sacrifice does...all the rest is hyperbole.
    how about we all just write music about stuff that matters to us? if u want to lead worship with it, so be it.  if you want to write about your struggles with your faith, so be it. if you want to write about work & life & your girlfriend & your car, so be it. if you want to write about how pissed off at God you are because a friend died, then DO IT!
  yeah.....but i guess we can't do that because every time someone is honest and does that, or uses the F word in a song we question their very salvation.
   and that's pathetic.

2. the term "christian' now carries so much presupposed baggage (narrow minded,bigoted,etc etc) that it closes doors, it doesn't open them.
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« Reply #6 on: May 15, 2007, 05:24:39 PM »
I agree completely with both camps. If you think about it, it makes sense...to argue both ways.
IT doesn't always close doors though Davo. I 'market' my music as "Christian Trance"...if you google or yahoo that term you'll find me there somewhere on the first page. And I do so not to boast or to legitimize the use of it as an adjective...I do so because people actually find me that way.
And they tell me that.
And I've had people visit my site and say, "OH...Christian trance...that's kinda cool..never thought of that before."

So, you see how it can be a good tool in getting the "Christian" message out there....oops...that's an adjective.  Undecided




Seriously though. Are we getting hung up on this? I agree that you need to BE one and not use the label...blah blah ... Christian vs. Follower of Christ...yada yada....are we all done with it yet?
« Last Edit: May 15, 2007, 05:27:17 PM by Digital Aura » Logged

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« Reply #7 on: May 15, 2007, 06:43:38 PM »
Quote from: Davo on May 15, 2007, 03:39:59 PM
2. the term "christian' now carries so much presupposed baggage (narrow minded,bigoted,etc etc) that it closes doors, it doesn't open them.

I don't have the time right now to hit on everything, so I'll hit this.

Davo, this is EXACTLY what I'm talking about. We stop using a term simply b/c some ppl don't like it? Come on. This is a lame argument. It's tired. Ppl may not like it, but it is still a word and a term that has a specific meaning.

I guess I should stop using the word carbon now that some people think it destroys the environment?

We're running away from who we are and hiding it simply because we're afraid who we really are will offend. Come on.
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« Reply #8 on: May 15, 2007, 07:28:48 PM »
OK a bit more...

Why are we ashamed? Seriously. And don't tell me that we aren't.

Has anybody read Acts lately? They hated Christians so much there that people would form a mob and kill the Christians. How many times did Paul narrowly escape death? How could the hatred of Christianity today in the US and Europe be ANY worse than it was back then?

These people were being killed and yet they still went out and said that they were Christians and did so proudly knowing that they could die for doing so.

Cowards. That's what we are today. Myself included.

You want to bring integrity back to the noun Christian...even when it is used as an adjective? Then don't deny it. Use it. Be the best example of Christ that you can be. Point out hypocrisy when you find it, but never EVER deny that you are associated with Christ.
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« Reply #9 on: May 15, 2007, 08:08:11 PM »
It's not being associated with Christ he's ashamed of though...it's other Christians. I can see that.
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« Reply #10 on: May 15, 2007, 08:23:08 PM »
Christians like Jerry Falwell??? Even Larry Flynt found a way to love, respect and be friends with him.

http://www.accesshollywood.com/news/ah5356.shtml

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"The Reverend Jerry Falwell and I were arch enemies for fifteen years. We became involved in a lawsuit concerning First Amendment rights and Hustler magazine. Without question, this was my most important battle – the l988 Hustler Magazine, Inc., v. Jerry Falwell case, where after millions of dollars and much deliberation, the Supreme Court unanimously ruled in my favor.

My mother always told me that no matter how much you dislike a person, when you meet them face to face you will find characteristics about them that you like. Jerry Falwell was a perfect example of that. I hated everything he stood for, but after meeting him in person, years after the trial, Jerry Falwell and I became good friends. He would visit me in California and we would debate together on college campuses. I always appreciated his sincerity even though I knew what he was selling and he knew what I was selling..."

Seriously. This type of attitude... this being ashamed of be associated with other Christians, has to stop. It's a cop out. Period.
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"If I had a dog that was following a chicken around eating it's poop, the chicken may not have been the only animal to go..." Nino, 3cell records
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« Reply #11 on: May 15, 2007, 08:47:07 PM »
I dunno Dave. It's a valid point. Do you want to be associated with hypocrites? We're talking about the non-Christians warped view of "CHRISTIANS"...they see us in the same light as the worst hypocrite they know. THAT'S all I think he's talkin' about.
I don't want to be affiliated with what the world THINKS a Christian is.  Wink
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« Reply #12 on: May 15, 2007, 08:52:45 PM »
I want to be associated with Christ. I'm not going to let they hypocrites ruin his good name or keep me from taking it. Seriously, that's how I feel right now. I don't have time to worry about them. None of us do.

Secondly, when was the last time that you sinned? Doesn't that make you one of those hypocrites? I know I'm one. There's a difference between someone who is totally fake and the others who are just babes in Christ. The fakers God can and will weed out. The babes, we're suppose to disciple.

I'm not denying Christ just because others embarrass me or make my job harder.
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« Reply #13 on: May 15, 2007, 09:12:09 PM »
I'm so tired of this fight. Can't we all just get along
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Dave Richards
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« Reply #14 on: May 15, 2007, 09:26:29 PM »
exactly. You can't have unity in Christ if you are trying to seperate yourself from "those" Christians.
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"If I had a dog that was following a chicken around eating it's poop, the chicken may not have been the only animal to go..." Nino, 3cell records
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