Hello,

How many releases did C2G/Slyder have?  I have both C2G cd's, and know theres a handfull of 12" releases.  I was listening to some the mp3's i acquired 5 or so years ago when filesharing was much more prevelant- yet they are not on any of my cd's.   So if you could please help out a noob , i'd greatly appreciate it

What is the dealio with swearing in music? It only shows the lyricists lack of adjective knowledge!

So, i went through my mp3's to pick out the items that I can't find any reference of anywhere:  here they are

as Cloud2Ground:

Afterglow, Feel Good, Fly (paradigmatic mix), Supernatural, Vocoder, F5 (ext. Ver.), Away (hydroplane mix)

and a remix of Dreams by Cranberries.

as Slyder:

Carry on (orig mix and rrds morning sun mix), Lex luther, Walking on Water, Spyder Skeye

Then a Tracked labled 'same' by Jeremy Dawson

I suppose theres the chance that some person mislabled some of these tracks perhaps- i don't know... maybe some of you do.

I've told JD that on this site b4. JD and Chad wrote that song. Dunno who fought to use that word, but the credit is to them, not the rest of the band.

you just DID judge their souls by saying "if they still want to be regarded as christians". i didn't know the use of a certain word decided whether you were saved or not.  having to put up with statements like this from the christian community for the last....15 years or so while receiving no support is probably why they formed the band in the first place...to make music that people will actually appreciate and buy.  ask the guy from celldweller.

true,it should be a goal that we shouldn't swear...but is it more important that Bono not use the F word or that he's working to wipe out aides in africa?  we're not perfect.

At the risk of making this a dreaded spiritual discussion, the Bible does clearly say that, as followers of Christ, no unwholesome talk is to come out of our mouths. Society in general regards the "F bomb" as unwholesome. (Just ask the movie industry. Two F's and you've earned an "R".)

Davo, the Bono example is apples and oranges. Bono can do just as much good in Africa without swearing. Swearing doesn't make him a more effective humanitarian. Does someone being publicly Christlike in one way mean that we're to overlook that person's public unChristlike behavior in another area?

And, Dan, in this situation, we're only hypocrites if we expect other Christians not to swear while pretending that we don't swear when we actually do or when we think it's okay for us to swear but criticize others for doing it. Unfortunately, I still sometimes cuss when I lose my temper. Does it make me a hypocrite to say that Christians shouldn't swear? Not at all, because I know that my behavior is sinful and is something that I try hard not to do.

I do think Digi's word choice could've been better. I think what he was getting at (at least how I read it) was more in regard to Christ's trees-and-fruits type statements. You can think that someone's not behaving properly as a Christian and wonder whether or not they really are a Christian without judging them (you wonder, but you know that only God truly knows their heart). If the observable behavior isn't Christlike, it's not unreasonable to wonder whether Christ is present ("regarded as Christians"). To me, he's saying that it's bad judgment and unacceptable for Christians to speak in an unwholesome manner (which I would say includes slander, gossip, and others in addition to simply swearing). The Bible supports him. I don't see him saying that there's no way they could possibly be Christians, which would be judging.

That seems a ridiculous statement. Jesus didn't cuss out the Pharisees, Pilate, or the Jews but was still passionate enough to be tortured to death and suffer the excruciating agony of spiritual separation from God. Fox's Book of Martyrs must've been censored. I don't recall any profanity in the records of the martyrs speaking before they were killed. Stephan, the first martyr, nope, no cussing. So, your prof would say they weren't passionate enough? That makes no sense.

From dictionary.com:

Profanity:

Profane:

Sorry, man. Doesn't sound like the definition of passionate Christian speech to me.


Yup. We agree.


I think you gloss over this one too easily. Does your last sentence mean that you don't consider swearing to be unwholesome talk? If so, I find that odd, and we'll never come to any understanding because we're facing in two opposite directions.


I see it as apply to profanity and much more, as I mentioned in my first reply.

Other than to say that, thanks to God's grace and Christ's death and resurrection, God's not keeping tick marks on any of my sins, yours, or anyone else's, I'm skipping addressing the remainder of your reply because I find it insulting. You previously labeled those who disagree with you as hypocrites. Now, you've added in "brainless, non-expressive automaton", assumed that I haven't read the lyrics (which I have) and have closed off my ears (I'm wrong for choosing to refrain from listening to lyrics that have words in them that I consider profane??), alluded to the possibility that I'm brainwashed for not agreeing with you, and stated that I'm being childish (not grown up).

There is quite a bit of discussion going on relating to John Piper's recent use of the language "God kicks your {mmm...tasty}" at the Passion 07 conference. 

I think what is missing is a real discussion of philosophy of language. Now, I am a realist so I believe that all of our linguistic symbols and signifiers have a referent. In other words, reality is not created and constructed by our words. All languages refer to things which are real in the created space/time order or metaphysical realities as is the case of language referring to God, souls, abstract ideas (sets of numbers etc.) Additionally we may logically rearrange ideas with our language as when we "refer" to pink unicorns.

The reason we can call something feces, poo-poo, etc. is that it refers to something. Additionally our language that God "kicks our ____" (choose your word) also speaks to an actual state of affairs that obtains. (Here it is noted  that a profanity is speaking of something holy in a way that belittles, blasphemes...profanes.  Obscenities are that which is vulgar or offensive)  Yet, with the case of obscenities, one must discuss the usage of language within a cultural/linguistic group. Dr. Grudem has done this in stating the following:

    A number of different words can denote the same thing but have different connotations, some of them recognized as "unclean" or "offensive" by the culture.

The problem here arises because we must ask "which culture" - There is no easily arrived at shared norm in English speaking culture today to which we can refer. If one follows what is allowable by censors on television, then {mmm...tasty} is certainly not an obscenity at all. It perhaps was 50 years ago, but it in no way is "offensive, vulgar, etc." in the mainstream today. If however one means to "the Chrisitan community" we are again mired to differentiate acceptible language within certain subcultural groupings of Christians. Should Piper's language be considered obscene if his audience found no offense in it whatsoever? Or if someone actually took offense to it somewhere on the internet, or in the car listening to it on CD? In regards to language I believe we must realize that though reality is not constructed by language, things such as obscenities are quite communally oriented. Many words which would cause shame, derision in some parts of the body of Christ are completely benign and venacular to the culture at large. Words like "suck" "pissed off" are quite normal on the street. Many Christian converts, those who did not grow up in a certain sub culture, would have been right at home with Piper's remarks; perhaps discipleship will lead them to saying things other than "Kick your ___" or even dropping the whole "kicking" metaphor altogether. But I think what was communicated was more truthful, honest, and biblically faithful to some of Dr. Piper's hearers than just about anything I could substitute. Perhaps many who are not regularly engaged with real, worldly, non Christian speakers are outraged by someone saying "that sucks" - but believe me, in our "culture" this sort of language would not come close to meeting a dictionary definition of obscenity as: "Something or an utterance that is disgusting to the senses abhorrent to morality or virtue."

Reality, including truth and morality is fixed. I am not advocating for any sort of relativism at all. All the verses Dr. Grudem cited refer to real states of affairs before God which we must yield and obey. Yet they refer to orientations of the heart and affections and then expressions of these with words and actions. It is precisely here where it requires wisdom and discernment. To know what is corrupting talk and what is edifying in our community. Does it move one towards idolatry, self worship, the degradation of others, hatred of neighbor, profaning that which is holy, does it titilate, tear down, provoke unrighteous anger, mock, etc, etc. These are the questions we must ask for these things happen in our souls and in our communities. Does a Christian, who is looking at the death of his infant child and says "this present age sucks" committ a heinous sin? Or has he said something real and true about life outside of the garden in the language he finds as home. The language which we use to describe our inner states as well as the states of the world does shift. So my bottom line is this. I think such conversations about "corrupting talk and crude joking" will always happen within the body of Christ. Some calling for Piper's head because he said {mmm...tasty}, others saying he didn't do a thing wrong. In the spirit of loving our brothers, our neighbors, we should not seek to offend one another, push the edges simply to ruffle others, etc. This is immature and sophomoric. Yet neither should we claim the definitive high ground above others whose language is a bit rougher than the small tribe in which we make our home. They might just be communicating gospel truth to others. Love covers a multitude of sins and helps us on in this conversation so please don't cuss me out nor smugly dismiss the discussion.

here is another quote:

"I have three things I'd like to say today. First, while you were sleeping last night, 30,000 kids died of starvation or diseases related to malnutrition. Second, most of you don't give a {mmm...tasty}. What's worse is that you're more upset with the fact that I said {mmm...tasty} than the fact that 30,000 kids died last night.”


Tony Campolo