Apathy and The Spiritual Struggle
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Dave Richards
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« on: September 15, 2006, 09:04:51 AM »

http://tastyfresh.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=293&Itemid=31
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Christopher Carl
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« Reply #1 on: September 26, 2006, 03:26:33 AM »

irony is ironic.
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« Reply #2 on: September 26, 2006, 07:57:00 AM »

yes... it is.
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djdualcore
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« Reply #3 on: September 28, 2006, 07:43:20 AM »

I think part of the lack of motivation in various Christian music scenes is that it is so many people's second choice.  The Christian x music scene is always percieved as the homely step-sister of the mainstream scene where everybody wants to be, even if they have good reasons for not being there (need to be away from alcohol, etc.). 

Everybody looks up to artists who have crossed over, even if they criticize them for selling out. 
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« Reply #4 on: September 29, 2006, 01:42:18 AM »

I know a lot of people see it that way, but I don't. I believe that God will use a Christian's music regardless of what scene they are in. Personally, I have no desire to cross over. I'm happy to be known as a DJ for Christ. I just wish those who consider themselves to be a Christian to support others who consider themselves to be a Christian.

Admitedly, this article came from my own frustration of years of trying ideas for networking, promotions, etc and getting very little response. I have come to the conclusion that we don't care about our fellow brothers and sisters efforts unless it is already getting a BIG spotlight from the secular scene. It's just not fair. People who are working hard to get thier music played out or thier events well attended are being ignored because they don't have some coveted name recognition. I'm not saying guys like Shiloh, Andy Hunter, Kubiks, etc don't deserve it. They absolutely do. They have gone the extra mile, put in the effort, "paid the cost" and it is showing now. I'm saying to also give equal attention to the guys who are just starting out. Even if you think thier music/ideas/website needs work, let them know that you are paying attention and you hope to see great things from them.

That's all I am saying.

I know I probably hold an unpopular viewpoint here. I just remember all the times I just felt like giving up because it seemed that nobody cared.
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« Reply #5 on: September 29, 2006, 02:15:32 PM »

I was nodding my head in somewhat agreement until you said "It's not fair". It's not about being fair!

I guess it depends on what your definition of "support" is. I will gladly support Christian artists (film/music/whatever) if it's good. I will not support them to just support them. But I also won't berate them either.

It also comes down to just people being people. Personally, I'm not good at giving compliments. To anyone. And I don't know why! It's just me. So a lot of times, I might not say anything when in my head I'm thinking "Wow, that's really cool".

I don't know if it's possible to give equal attention to someone, such as myself, and to Andy Hunter. I'd like to think I have something to offer but I can't expect people to get equally excited about my next release and Andy Hunter's current release etc.

It's just not realistic. I realized awhile ago that my creative talents have to make me (and hopefully God) happy first. If people enjoy what I do, in whatever medium, that's great and it will normally give me extra incentive to keep doing it etc. but bottom line, my need to be creative is not beholden to the success that it may or may not bring me.

I'm not saying that I've never been frustrated, trust me, I've gone through what you're feeling. But once I realized that I'd rather be happy than successful (on a grand scale), it was pretty liberating. And personally, by realizing that about myself, it's allowed me to be even more creative and more open to things.

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djdualcore
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« Reply #6 on: September 30, 2006, 06:38:12 AM »

I will gladly support Christian artists (film/music/whatever) if it's good. I will not support them to just support them.

I think part of the ho-hum attitude is to make up for the CCM/church expectation that we should enthusiastically support this or that because it is "ours" by virtue of having the word "Christian" attached to it.  When I started going to church in 1986 I was given a lot of really bad Christian rock tapes by well meaning people who wanted to get me onto a more wholesome musical diet.  They genuinely liked it because they liked the message and liked that the music was "thiers" and not The World's.

I know others have had this experience and seen that phenomenon.  Those of us who have tasted the real thing and really care about music, in and of itself, need to make sure we are not over-compensating.
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« Reply #7 on: September 30, 2006, 07:09:27 AM »

My thoughts:

1. Christian music shouldn't be allowed to be inferior to other music. As mention in posts scattered throughout the TF forums, we're to be doing music for the glory of God. If we're willing to settle for producing second-rate music, that says something about our attitude towards God. It also shouldn't be seen as a fall-back position or second chance for those that tried to make it in the secular world and failed.

2. Christian music shouldn't be assumed to be inferior to other music. I've had quite a few Christian friends who have scoffed at the idea of listening to Christian music and have turned up their noses because they feel that, if it's Christian, it can't be any good. While sometimes true (moreso in the past in my opinion), that's an unfair and inaccurate generality to make.
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« Reply #8 on: October 04, 2006, 10:21:28 AM »

I've had quite a few Christian friends who have scoffed at the idea of listening to Christian music and have turned up their noses because they feel that, if it's Christian, it can't be any good. While sometimes true (moreso in the past in my opinion), that's an unfair and inaccurate generality to make.

I totally agree, but I think it is worth looking at how it ever came to be true at all that Christian-labled music tended to be second rate.  I think it comes from fans and producers giving second rate material a bye becasue
     1. It is "thiers" because it is labled Christian
     2. They like the message
     3. or percieved "ministry value"

A guy I used to go to church with told me once his favorite band was Skillet.  I'd known him for some time and this just didn't fit.  I said, with more attitude that I probably should have, "I've heard Skillet.  They are not YOUR favorite band."  He said "Well, they have a great ministry." 

I'm not saying ministry is not important.  I'm saying is doesn't make the music better.  I'm also not dissing Skillet, but since he is much more the Phil Keagy type I would argue he had no idea whether Skillet was any good or not.  This kind of attitude allows for poor music.
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Dave Richards
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« Reply #9 on: October 04, 2006, 11:21:09 AM »

hmmmm... I don't get it either. Outside of the money that the BIG 5 labels funnel through their Christian CCM sublabels, I can't think of one good reason why most of the bands today are popular. When you look at groups/artists like the 77s, Phi Keaggy and so on, there isn't any other reason for them to be so "unpopular" outside of larger labels stating crap must be the standard for CCM.
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« Reply #10 on: October 04, 2006, 08:59:28 PM »

there's only so many no-show gigs (and no sale CDs) you can do before you think it's not worth it. or rather, that you're better off ministering in a different way.  someone a long time ago asked the question "what if this ministry is not needed at all?"

what if it's not? what if it can only sustain DJing to your youth group after service & throwing a 50 person praise party?  is that 'enough'?

that being said,methinks the scene lacks consistency more than it lacks support...or maybe that's saying the egg came before the chicken?


club worship hammers on through every month whether last month's turnout is good or not.

many artists do the same thing.

the big question for everyone is "is it worth it"? 

=======================

PS: i think christian rock has made HUGE strides in the last few years. i see all the promo only comps that DJs buy every month,and it never fails that a few christian bands make it onto the mainstream compilations.

the same will happen with christiam EDM if we keep raising the bar and getting out into the world with our music...
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« Reply #11 on: October 04, 2006, 10:28:14 PM »

i think christian rock has made HUGE strides in the last few years. i see all the promo only comps that DJs buy every month,and it never fails that a few christian bands make it onto the mainstream compilations.

oh yes, this is something Ive kept up with since I started checking the christian music scene.  it is more widely accepted too to some degree.


the same will happen with christiam EDM if we keep raising the bar and getting out into the world with our music...

yes, definitely, thats something I definitely want to see, cause God only deserves our best.
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« Reply #12 on: October 05, 2006, 01:27:59 AM »

I'm gonna say this once.

My article has nothing to do with no other Christian "scene" other than Tastyfresh. WE don't support each other. WE only give kudos to those who are already "big". WE have become apethetic about each others projects. WE are not getting any better unless someone steps up and leads the example by showing our support for our own people's projects regardless of how good or bad it we think it is. The problem is the fact that WE are looking for some invisible standard and that if it isn't there WE will not support it.

I am NOT saying to ENDORSE something that is bad, I am simply saying a simple email or phone call of enouragement and GUIDANCE is a great way to overcome our apathy and to show each other support. We need to let each other know that we care and are here for each other.
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Dave Richards
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« Reply #13 on: October 05, 2006, 08:27:16 AM »

that being said,methinks the scene lacks consistency more than it lacks support...or maybe that's saying the egg came before the chicken?

Or maybe... there isn't really a scene. That's the Fusion approach. If you look at the secular scene, we keep finding more and more of our brothers and sisters there. Maybe our focus of building a purely xian scene is flat out the wrong way to go.

Isolated events are fine, but what are we REALLY trying to do with all of this? I've been TRYING to get people to think about that with the Unity series. I'm probably going to take it up a notch with the next article, but the basic theory is we don't have a common goal for us to all work toward. We don't know what to support because we have NEVER defined what it is that we are doing.

In many ways this goes beyond apathy toward the scene and goes straight to apathy toward even thinking about anything. If nobody's really interested in all of this... why are we doing it?

Or... is it that many of us are just totally burned out from being burned for so long?

What makes sense to me is this:
1) Figuring out what the HECK we are doing this for in a broad sense
2) meeting in small 10-30 ppl groups for house parties aka groove fellowships
3) where more people are interested... through a larger party
4) figure out why we're throughing parties Wink
5) keep EVERYTHING low-cost, but high-quality. Labels should be ALL digital. DJs and producers should buy good gear, but not go into debt. promoters should focus on word of mouth and electronic promotions over spending half their budget on flyers that make their show seem better than it really will be. I could go on.

Nobody is learning from others mistakes who is complaining today. We constantly are reinventing the wheel rather than building the front axel and transmission. Until we start doing that, we'll be stuck in this rut. Look at who has "made" it. What have they done? They found a solid vision for what they were supposed to do, set goals and pushed toward them without faltering and ignoring their doubt.

Why aren't the rest of us doing the same and why don't we know what our purpose is after 14 years?
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Dave Richards
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« Reply #14 on: October 05, 2006, 08:28:56 AM »

PS: i think christian rock has made HUGE strides in the last few years. i see all the promo only comps that DJs buy every month,and it never fails that a few christian bands make it onto the mainstream compilations.

the same will happen with christiam EDM if we keep raising the bar and getting out into the world with our music...

Last I checked... this has been happening for a LONG time now for xians. Just look at the history of the  clover line-up and the others we know about who couldn't make it there.
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"If I had a dog that was following a chicken around eating it's poop, the chicken may not have been the only animal to go..." Nino, 3cell records
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