Beatport's gay pride stuff
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thepudd
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« Reply #90 on: July 05, 2008, 01:08:10 AM »

^ Anything can be a sin, if it's what separates you from God. Wink

Unlike him, we are sinful people, and if we make appearances at events that exist to promote sin, it certainly will appear to logical people that we are also promoting sin.

Permit me a large summation, but that seems to be the burning question for you doens't it, and possibly John as well? Because I agree with the large majority of what John said, but I also feel that attending the event, even performing at the event, does not trump one's own beliefs. It would clearly be sin for JT X, or John to attend a gay pride festival, based on what they've publicly said here. But I'm still not convinced that it's "sin, period." Because again, since Jesus's death and resurrection, sin is not about a master list of does and don'ts. It's about what separates you from your relationship from Christ.  The Bible provides a superb guide for training our conscience, but when Jesus's resurrection caused the temple curtain to be torn, I believe it became ONLY that. A guide... a beautiful love story inspired by God guide. The real business, and what gets us into heaven or hell, is our relationship with Jesus. Out of the overflow of that relationship must come our own convictions of what is right and wrong, otherwise they're simply dead religion, or empty tradition.

As the author of a book I'm reading said, "Does our heartfelt desire to obey, nudge out the pressure to do something right?" It comes back to flesh vs. spirit man. We can be the best managers of our flesh that we can, but ultimately we have to let our flesh die (as it was crucified with Christ), and live out of his empowering spirit. This is a fundamental shift, not a gradual improving of our lives.

This is the reason I feel I feel the following statement shouldn't hold any sway:

Quote
it certainly will appear to logical people that we are also promoting sin.


Who/what are logical people, to my relationship with Christ?
« Last Edit: July 05, 2008, 01:17:11 AM by thepudd » Logged

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« Reply #91 on: July 05, 2008, 03:51:57 AM »

Quote
It comes back to flesh vs. spirit man.

Yup.
Gal. 5:16-21

But I say, through the instrumentality of the Spirit habitually order your manner of life, and you will in no wise execute the passionate desire of the evil nature, for the evil natue constantly has a strong desire to suppress, the Spirit, and the Spirit constantly has a strong desire to suppress the evil nature. And these are entrenched in an attitude of mutual opposition to one another so that you may not do the things that you deire to do. But if you are being led by the Spirit you are not under the law. Now the works of the evil nature are well known, works of such a nature as, for example, fornication, uncleanness, wantonness, idolatry, witchcraft, enmities, strife, jealousy, angers, self-seekings, divisions, factions, envyings, drunkenness, carousings, and the things of such a nature which are like these things, respecting which things I am telling you beforehand even as I told you in advance, that those who are in the habit of practicing things of that nature shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
*italics mine*
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Tactek
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« Reply #92 on: July 05, 2008, 04:13:15 AM »

Quote
The gay pride festival is going to take place whether or not Shiloh performs.  Why not use the opportunity of being invited to DJ?  The parade would go on without them, and the opportunity to create relationships and share Christ through those would be lost.  If they are not sinning themselves then they have free reign to go for it and take risks in spreading the Gospel.  Saying that they condone it simply by spinning there is judging their heart.

Was the gospel spread?  How many participants in the homosexual pride parade knew they were representing christ?  I don't know but that is a question Shiloh needs to ask themselves. 

Personally I haven't had much success witnessing when I have DJ'ed at clubs.  I have had success (seeing people ministered to or giving their lives to Jesus) in DJing evangelistic events.  I don't think every christian who is a DJ is supposed to be DJing a club scene.  Again I think that the numbers are fewer than we would like to think.  Because we all wanna be on the bill with Tiesto, Deadmau5, or whoever we fancy. I think there could be some "self seeking" involved.  You better here clearly, without doubt from the Spirit of God that you are called to spin in clubs  Otherwise you could end up in divorce, losing your kids, become addicted to drugs, or out of fellowship with your Father in Heaven because you are entrenched in an attitude of opposition to what He wants for you.
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thepudd
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« Reply #93 on: July 05, 2008, 04:18:48 AM »

You're totally right. And I believe on the flipside, if you ARE called by God to be in the clubs, then do it to your fullest extent. And other Christians should support the calling on another brother's life.
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« Reply #94 on: July 05, 2008, 05:25:57 AM »

Well it's like being asked to spin in a gay club. What do you do? You can either go spin a gospel house set and see what happens, or risk spinning songs about "love" in an attempt to deliver a message about salvation and have it mistranslated as a song about homosexual love.

Unless you have the balls to stand up for what you believe in an appropriate way when people come talk to you after the set.

Jesus went to a wedding and turned water into wine. The choice wine, I might add. I'm sure that people got drunk off that wine. Does that make Jesus a sin-condoner? Or does it make him a person who says: "Look at what miracles God can perform?"

So how do we "turn water into wine" at a gay club or pride parade without A) directly condoning sin, and without B) hating on the homosexuals themselves?

I'd even argue that it's pointless to hate on their sin too. Because of "gay pride", taking the angle of pointing out their sin isn't really going to get you anything but a closed door. Rather, the "all have sinned and fallen short" angle is way more appropriate, because you aren't singling out their "gay sin" over your own "straight sin". Besides, the gospel is more about salvation and grace than sin. Sin is the catalyst, but salvation is the reaction and the springboard into true life.
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gabedog
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« Reply #95 on: July 05, 2008, 07:46:00 AM »

The gay pride festival is going to take place whether or not Shiloh performs.  Why not use the opportunity of being invited to DJ?  The parade would go on without them, and the opportunity to create relationships and share Christ through those would be lost.  If they are not sinning themselves then they have free reign to go for it and take risks in spreading the Gospel.  Saying that they condone it simply by spinning there is judging their heart.
So imagine instead that they are at a smoker's pride parade, but they are there for the purpose of spreading an anti-smoking message? Do you think anyone could possibly take them seriously? What kind of witness would they be able to present, when their actions and their words are utterly inconsistent?


again, your focus is completely off...

its not about spreading an anit-anything message.  its about spreading a Life message.  we are not here to condemn but to bring life.  and that life is Christ.  And to my knowledge, Shiloh were not having gay sex so i dont think their actions compromised anything.

Also, I think you may have overlooked a key word in my quote: "relationships" 

We cannot expect people to be open and willing to accept Christ as their personal savior by drive-by evangelism.  I was a target of that not to long ago in a Target (ironic) parking lot.  The woman asked if i knew Christ.  I said "Yes, He's amazing." and then she said, ok pray this prayer.  i just stared at her for a little and started laughing. she didnt care at all about me.  it seemed it was about the numbers to her.  after her prayer she handed me a tract and drove off...she did not once get out of her car.  it was humorous...but sad all at once. 

Far too often we try to make reaching out to people a simple thing, when it is not.  We are up against an unseen enemy that is powerful, but not as powerful as Christ in us.  Relationships will show a person that you do care for them, and as they begin to know you, they will begin to see that you have a hope in something they have never known.  And through a relationship you can see people through and give them continued wisdom and advice instead of making them say a prayer and then leaving to fend for themselves.  That is the power if going into these places.

Quote
The gay pride festival is going to take place whether or not Shiloh performs.  Why not use the opportunity of being invited to DJ?  The parade would go on without them, and the opportunity to create relationships and share Christ through those would be lost.  If they are not sinning themselves then they have free reign to go for it and take risks in spreading the Gospel.  Saying that they condone it simply by spinning there is judging their heart.

Was the gospel spread?  How many participants in the homosexual pride parade knew they were representing christ?  I don't know but that is a question Shiloh needs to ask themselves. 



I cannot answer that question, and neither can you.  And it is not our place to.  Did Shiloh interact with people?  probably.  will those interactions turn into relationships in which they can minister through?  who knows? 
« Last Edit: July 05, 2008, 07:48:49 AM by gabedog » Logged

Tactek
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« Reply #96 on: July 05, 2008, 08:15:06 AM »

Quote
Unless you have the balls to stand up for what you believe in an appropriate way when people come talk to you after the set.

True Dat

Quote
You're totally right. And I believe on the flipside, if you ARE called by God to be in the clubs, then do it to your fullest extent. And other Christians should support the calling on another brother's life.

I agree.  What should we do if we see a fellow Christian who is a DJ with their life in shambles possibly because they are so driven to become something in the DJ arena that our Father hasn't called them to?


Quote
Far too often we try to make reaching out to people a simple thing, when it is not.  We are up against an unseen enemy that is powerful, but not as powerful as Christ in us.  Relationships will show a person that you do care for them, and as they begin to know you, they will begin to see that you have a hope in something they have never known.  And through a relationship you can see people through and give them continued wisdom and advice instead of making them say a prayer and then leaving to fend for themselves.  That is the power if going into these places.


I agree.  I would be curious to know how much evangelism has been done successfully this way.  Where the rubber meets the road.  Don't take this as negative.  I am for this type of evangelism.  I just think that the Kingdom strategy should be the focus.  I know it is easy to get caught up in the "Rock N Roll" fantasy along with all the other DJ's, Promoters, and such.  I've seen more talk of strategy for everything else is all.

Quote
So how do we "turn water into wine" at a gay club or pride parade without A) directly condoning sin, and without B) hating on the homosexuals themselves?

This is a great discussion!  How do we do this in all clubs?  Assuming you have been given the go ahead by the Holy Spirit to evangelize that sphere of influence.
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noah
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« Reply #97 on: July 05, 2008, 08:15:30 AM »

risher is spot on.
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Davo
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« Reply #98 on: July 05, 2008, 08:53:18 AM »

Didn't know Shiloh played in a gay-pride parade, but if they did, yeah, it bothers me.

wow did not know that. but then again I never really thought those guys were Christian anyway REGARDLESS OF WHAT EVERYONE ON THIS BOARD SAYS.

you better check yourself, kid.  seriously.  you don't know what the hell you're talking about, and you best stop speaking out of your backside about people you don't even know. 

------------------------------------------------------------------------

a couple things for everyone to consider before they continue their "evil gays" rants:


-is homosexuality suddenly the worst sin on the planet?  I don't see that anywhere in the bible.  i do see that pride is a sin in the bible, and that seems to run rampant around the christian world plenty.  like knowing who's saved and who's not and knowing some secret "hierarchy of sin" that is not listed in the bible.

-is playing at DEMF in detroit sinful because you're promoting a "raver/E-tard" lifestyle? 

-how about playing in any given club or bar in country? aren't you promoting drunken & licentious behavior?

-how about a taste fest? aren't you promoting gluttony & excessive beer drinking?



my point being as a DJ things are never as clear cut as they appear to be.  i don't know if i'd play a pride parade or not,but i'm pretty sure Jesus would be there (as others have insisted), and i'm pretty sure He'd talk to,hangout, and entertain people with his wit and charm and sense of humor.   I'm also pretty sure rather than tell them about their sinful lifestyle, He'd tell them about the love of God.


if you are 100% against playing a gay pride fest , you should be just as strongly against playing in a bar or at a party
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thepudd
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« Reply #99 on: July 05, 2008, 09:34:58 AM »

This is a great discussion!  How do we do this in all clubs?  Assuming you have been given the go ahead by the Holy Spirit to evangelize that sphere of influence.

Let me describe to you all a vision God has given me. I've had it on a couple of occasions, and have had it confirmed by prophecy. I don't know when it'll happen, but in faith I'm believing it will. The vision was, simply, that I was in a club (regular, secular club) spinning wonderful trancey tunes, and spontaneously the people on the dance floor fell to their knees, as the tangible overwhelming presence of the Holy Spirit entered the room.

That vision is what keeps me going. I've led worship a number of times from the decks, and have seen it happen! I've experienced the congregation (students at a Bible school) begin to burst out in laughter and shouts of praise, all in unison with no human prompting in a way that be visibly seen as the unseen moving across a room.

So, I'm holding on to that promise. I keep practicing, working up my skill, I'm starting to get into music production, and in all things trying to cultivate my relationship with Jesus, so that the Holy Spirit is always around me. I'm starting to network professionally, just like any other DJ or performing artist. So that I can walk into a place some day, with professional credibility, and God willing, he can fulfill the vision he's given me.
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« Reply #100 on: July 05, 2008, 10:16:15 AM »

Davo,

If I'm part of "everyone" doing their "evil gay" rants that you're addressing your post to, please let me know. I imagine it's probably safe to assume so, but I'd rather know for sure. Also, if I am one of those you're addressing, could you do me a favor please, and I mean this in all sincerity, not sarcastically.

Please provide quotes of what I've written in this thread that made you think that I was on an "evil gay" rant, that I thought homosexuality was the worse sin on the planet, that i indicated any belief that pride is not a sin, or that there is some sort of "heirarchy" of sin.

I don't believe that I ever said any of those things or even thought them. If there is something that I wrote that gave the impression that those were my beliefs, I'd really appreciate knowing what I said, so that I can clarify my intention or realize that I'd said more than I intended.

Thanks,
John
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« Reply #101 on: July 05, 2008, 11:36:40 AM »

for the record:
justin and colin are both very strong Christians. they are called to the club scene just as i am. we are missionaries not just to the clubbers but to those also in the scene. you have 2 choices at this point. understand the missional calling for those in the scene and support them in that or close off and make little communities were we are completely ineffective as ministers of reconciliation through Christ.
those are your only choices in this.
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« Reply #102 on: July 05, 2008, 11:42:47 AM »

 Cool

for the record:
justin and colin are both very strong Christians. they are called to the club scene just as i am. we are missionaries not just to the clubbers but to those also in the scene. you have 2 choices at this point. understand the missional calling for those in the scene and support them in that or close off and make little communities were we are completely ineffective as ministers of reconciliation through Christ.
those are your only choices in this.
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thepudd
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« Reply #103 on: July 05, 2008, 12:27:28 PM »

Was wondering where you were, Alex. Smiley (Clearly, you were at cstone)
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Matthew Risher
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« Reply #104 on: July 05, 2008, 01:04:38 PM »

This is a great discussion!  How do we do this in all clubs?  Assuming you have been given the go ahead by the Holy Spirit to evangelize that sphere of influence.

Let me describe to you all a vision God has given me. I've had it on a couple of occasions, and have had it confirmed by prophecy. I don't know when it'll happen, but in faith I'm believing it will. The vision was, simply, that I was in a club (regular, secular club) spinning wonderful trancey tunes, and spontaneously the people on the dance floor fell to their knees, as the tangible overwhelming presence of the Holy Spirit entered the room.

That vision is what keeps me going. I've led worship a number of times from the decks, and have seen it happen! I've experienced the congregation (students at a Bible school) begin to burst out in laughter and shouts of praise, all in unison with no human prompting in a way that be visibly seen as the unseen moving across a room.

So, I'm holding on to that promise. I keep practicing, working up my skill, I'm starting to get into music production, and in all things trying to cultivate my relationship with Jesus, so that the Holy Spirit is always around me. I'm starting to network professionally, just like any other DJ or performing artist. So that I can walk into a place some day, with professional credibility, and God willing, he can fulfill the vision he's given me.

Hold on to that ambition man. Do not let it go no matter what comes against you!
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