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How do you go from being an opener to a headliner?
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How do you go from being an opener to a headliner?
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Topic: How do you go from being an opener to a headliner? (Read 2290 times)
DJ Boywonder
Full Member
Posts: 101
Re: How do you go from being an opener to a headliner?
«
Reply #45 on:
May 14, 2008, 10:55:09 PM »
Alright, first of all I'm not sure if there is anyone posting in this thread that can talk from true experience about being a "headliner" in the likes that we are speaking, with the exception of maybe Joel, and I am including myself in that.
Quote from: Dave Richards on May 14, 2008, 05:31:18 PM
Openers do one thing. They make the headliner shine. That's it. That's their purpose. If the crowd is in a great mood, it doesn't matter how bad the headliner is doing. They'll have a great time. If the opener sucks... don't expect the headliner to do well.
Dave, I know you're the authority around here on a lot of things, but that comment in my opinion is just ridiculous. I've seen openers suck many times and the headliner kill it and I've also seen headliners clear the floor after a good opener.
True if the promoter knows what he's doing he organizes his talent wisely, however why should an opening DJ play something other than his own genre unless that was requested of him by the promoter from the get go? If a promoter told me I could open for LTJ Bukem, BUT I would have to play dnb. I probably would tell him no thanks, since I play house. Of course I would love to open for him, but I wouldn't be willing to sell out my sound. As a promoter I wouldn't expect the opener to "tone it down" one bit. The headliner is the professional. If the opening DJ blows it up, great. Let the headliner do what he's getting paid the big bucks to do: create a frenzy on the dancefloor. All this about, the opener's job is to make the headliner shine.. blah blah is crap in my opinion. Why do you think these guys are headliners? Not because they toned it down or played some other genre they didn't want to play. It's because they themselves carved out a niche, their own unique sound and people now want to book them for them.
Getting back to what is more difficult. As I said, I'm not sure if any of us can speak from experience, but the headliner definitely has the reputation to uphold. The opener has a chance to shine, which people may remember or he can suck and people will probably forget anyhow as soon as the headliner goes on. If the headliner is terrible, you better believe people will remember. A little more pressure on them.
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Dave Richards
The artist formally known as Redsavior.
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Re: How do you go from being an opener to a headliner?
«
Reply #46 on:
May 15, 2008, 07:41:17 AM »
Quote from: DJ Boywonder on May 14, 2008, 10:55:09 PM
Alright, first of all I'm not sure if there is anyone posting in this thread that can talk from true experience about being a "headliner" in the likes that we are speaking, with the exception of maybe Joel, and I am including myself in that.
Well... Bill Sikes, Oneel and Matt Hyatt all have a ton of experience both as promoters (well... maybe not Matt), producers (well... not Bill) and djs as both openers and in some cases headliners.
I'd listen to them and Joel above everyone else on this thread.
Quote from: DJ Boywonder on May 14, 2008, 10:55:09 PM
Quote from: Dave Richards on May 14, 2008, 05:31:18 PM
Openers do one thing. They make the headliner shine. That's it. That's their purpose. If the crowd is in a great mood, it doesn't matter how bad the headliner is doing. They'll have a great time. If the opener sucks... don't expect the headliner to do well.
Dave, I know you're the authority around here on a lot of things, but that comment in my opinion is just ridiculous. I've seen openers suck many times and the headliner kill it and I've also seen headliners clear the floor after a good opener.
If an opener sucks, the headliner has to do more work to pull it off. If the opener is better than the headliner, then the headliner didn't need to be paired with that opener and it's the promoter's fault. Heck! In both case's it's the promoter's fault.
Quote from: DJ Boywonder on May 14, 2008, 10:55:09 PM
True if the promoter knows what he's doing he organizes his talent wisely, however why should an opening DJ play something other than his own genre unless that was requested of him by the promoter from the get go?
Why would a promoter ever book a DJ that didn't play well with the style of the headliner???
Quote from: DJ Boywonder on May 14, 2008, 10:55:09 PM
If a promoter told me I could open for LTJ Bukem, BUT I would have to play dnb. I probably would tell him no thanks, since I play house.
I wouldn't take the job b/c that's a stupid promoter.
If I was the stupid promoter and you came in and played something you weren't contracted for (and it would be in the contract) I wouldn't pay you. Period.
Quote from: DJ Boywonder on May 14, 2008, 10:55:09 PM
Of course I would love to open for him, but I wouldn't be willing to sell out my sound.
You're sound? You have a sound? You have a unique sound that hundreds of other DJs don't have already and you are still an opener? How often do you play out? I'm honestly sure it's more than me, but can you honestly say your sound is unique when you play the same music that is available to just about everyone who plays your style?
Quote from: DJ Boywonder on May 14, 2008, 10:55:09 PM
The headliner is the professional.
Any opener who doesn't view himself as a professional will never become the headliner. Period. You can't afford to not have that attitude.
Quote from: DJ Boywonder on May 14, 2008, 10:55:09 PM
All this about, the opener's job is to make the headliner shine.. blah blah is crap in my opinion. Why do you think these guys are headliners? Not because they toned it down or played some other genre they didn't want to play. It's because they themselves carved out a niche, their own unique sound and people now want to book them for them.
As Oneel pointed out, most of them are headliners because they carved out that niche
AS OPENERS.
You have to develop it somewhere. If to big names are playing in different clubs on the same night, the opener could make a difference in which people go to. The opener has the ability to set the vibe for the club. You are discounting the opener's job way way to much.
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"If I had a dog that was following a chicken around eating it's poop, the chicken may not have been the only animal to go..." Nino, 3cell records
DJ Reborn
Full Member
Posts: 164
Re: How do you go from being an opener to a headliner?
«
Reply #47 on:
May 15, 2008, 08:34:45 AM »
You know, it was a long time after I first came to TF that I read anything Dave posted in relation to, well just about anything, that I actually agreed with. But, I must say I agree with that entire last post.
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Dave Richards
The artist formally known as Redsavior.
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Re: How do you go from being an opener to a headliner?
«
Reply #48 on:
May 15, 2008, 08:36:42 AM »
See! I'm not a nut job. Well... a total nut job anyway.
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"If I had a dog that was following a chicken around eating it's poop, the chicken may not have been the only animal to go..." Nino, 3cell records
DJ Reborn
Full Member
Posts: 164
Re: How do you go from being an opener to a headliner?
«
Reply #49 on:
May 15, 2008, 09:12:52 AM »
I don't know if I'd go quite that far
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thepudd
J Puddy, Jonathan Puddle
Hero Member
Posts: 2344
Re: How do you go from being an opener to a headliner?
«
Reply #50 on:
May 15, 2008, 09:41:49 AM »
Quote from: DJ Reborn on May 15, 2008, 08:34:45 AM
You know, it was a long time after I first came to TF that I read anything Dave posted in relation to, well just about anything, that I actually agreed with. But, I must say I agree with that entire last post.
lol.... I second that
Headliners job are made easy EVENTUALLY, because of the years of slugging away at the early stage. Building the sort of momentum that carries them through the rest of their carriers. Opening is a challenge, for the reasons stated above.
"How to DJ Properly" - considered by many to be the DJ's Bible - says if you're goal is fame, as a DJ, create a track. If your goal is to be the best DJ, kiss the fame goodbye.
While there are exceptions to every rule, this is how it goes for the majority of this industry. If you're
not going
to create tracks, I think you've got to be a VERY skilled DJ. We're talking industry changing, music style creating. Technical prowess... way above technical competence.
I had the opportunity of opening for Delirious in 2006, to a crowd of 3000 rock hungry kids. I played progressive house.
It worked out alright
, the energy built appropriately, the crowd was reasonable (there were less people standing still at the end, than at the beginning). Delirious thanked me afterwards, said they totally digged it.
But 3000 people were also shouting "DJ! DJ! DJ!" when I got on stage. So they were amped to begin with. If anything, I calmed them down at first.
Right now, I'm working on getting a residency in our city. For me that means hitting all the pubs and clubs in town, seeing what they play. I'm also getting my head into Reason.
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DJ Boywonder
Full Member
Posts: 101
Re: How do you go from being an opener to a headliner?
«
Reply #51 on:
May 15, 2008, 10:46:22 AM »
Dave, I'm not here to prove anything to you or anyone else. You do not know me or my history. Your comment about "do I have my own sound..blah blah.." maybe you didn't read the beginning of my post when I said I included myself in this. As a matter of fact, I do think you can carve out your own niche and have your own sound. Look at Joel or Tim Richards or Pete Le Freq, I know they are all on here. Yes, they produce electronic dance music, it's all EDM unless you want to play rock or jazz or something, but they certainly have their own "unique" sound. Maybe it's somewhat similar to some others but they have a sound that is theirs. I know when I pick up one of their tracks, what to expect. They work hard to produce tracks, get their music out there, and network. Who is anyone on here to say Chris can't make it as a headlining DJ? They all start somewhere. I had a few points, that I am trying to make and pudd just reiterated one in his post above. You want to be the big headliner, put out some quality tracks then do a lot of networking. You can disagree with me all you want on what is more difficult opening or headlining. I'm sure it takes hard work and slugging away, as pudd puts it, to get there. I just don't think once you're on top that it's all nice and easy in comparison
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DJ Reborn
Full Member
Posts: 164
Re: How do you go from being an opener to a headliner?
«
Reply #52 on:
May 15, 2008, 11:18:08 AM »
I think for some it is nice and easy. Oakenfold never has to buy a track, only adds a select few to his playlist annually, and everyone knows that about him and expects it from him, so he doesn't have to work very hard at pleasing his audience. Instead, he just gets drunk off champagne and tries not to trainwreck. Simple. Others have to work much harder to keep ahead of everyone else because, well frankly, their name isn't Paul Oakenfold (so not everyone and their brother is sending them new & unreleased tracks in hopes of getting it spun by a big-timer).
"Headliner" is a vast category. On the high end of that category you have the guys that really can just take it easy if they want to. Oakey, Digweed, PvD, Carl Cox, Tiesto, Rennie Pilgrem, Adam Freeland, Ritchie Hawtin, etc., etc. Not that those guys don't work hard, just that they probably wouldn't lose that much of an audience if they played the game like Oakey because, let's face it, their name recognition is just phenomenal and that's what draws crowds in the end. True, they got their through hard work, and many of them choose to work hard still, but Oakey has proven they don't have to.
Then, on the other end of the "headliner" spectrum you have the guys that headline the smaller events put on by the local promoters who are themselves trying to carve out a niche in the game. Those guys are walking the line between headliner and opener most of the time. When none of those big shots I mentioned above are in town, then these are the headliners. But, as soon as one of those guys does come to town, now they're openers again. Those guys have to work hard at what they do because if they don't there is always some opener busting his but networking and making tracks and promoting himself well to the right people who will gladly step up and fill that lazy guy's shoes at the next event.
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Alex W
Seeking True Worship in Unorthodox Music
Writer
Hero Member
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Re: How do you go from being an opener to a headliner?
«
Reply #53 on:
May 15, 2008, 12:23:17 PM »
ask oneel his djing experience. i value his opinion on DJing in HIGH regard, above pretty much everyone else.
i think chris can definatly make it to headlining. im sure of it, the question is, can the scene support it? i have been told several times that if i really work on it (which i am workin on) i can make it too. but not in richmond, at least not with what i tend to play (electro/prog house). but i can probably get away with some gigs playing what i play sometimes (funky house) or, like im doing, start DJing disco. which ill probably start doing. get a tusday disco night or something, i can probably get that going.
rely on oneel, he has never steered me wrong before.
«
Last Edit: May 15, 2008, 12:26:16 PM by Alex Wilson
»
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Christopher Carl
Afterhours Planning
Hero Member
Posts: 8436
Re: How do you go from being an opener to a headliner?
«
Reply #54 on:
May 15, 2008, 03:13:15 PM »
FOOD FIGHT!
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thepudd
J Puddy, Jonathan Puddle
Hero Member
Posts: 2344
Re: How do you go from being an opener to a headliner?
«
Reply #55 on:
May 16, 2008, 12:05:36 AM »
Another thing, that I am loath to bring up here... but is a reality, is the favour of God. When it comes to your profession, or your desired profession, I am very much of the group that says, "Go and get trained." Do your homework, do the due diligence and make a serious effort, because there's credibility there, and I think it's critically important for Christians to have industry credibility.
But don't forget that God can and does open doors out of the blue, and can advance your situation beyond logical process. Joseph is a prime example of this, in the Bible.
Practically speaking, I'm just saying don't count God out of the equation. Listen to Oneel, Shiloh, Joel, the people who have worked hard to establish credibility, and follow their advice. But also spend time with the Lord, seeking his face and his direction. The right God inspired meeting can trump a lot of networking. That's not to say that networking is bad/pointless (far from it!), just keep God in the equation, and do your practical homework at the same time.
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Oneel
Iron Chef Ramen
Afterhours Planning
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Posts: 1111
Where my pockeys at?
Re: How do you go from being an opener to a headliner?
«
Reply #56 on:
May 16, 2008, 06:05:56 AM »
X 52billion
If God doesn't want it to happen, it'll never happen. It's always important to remember who is really in control.
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DJ Reborn
Full Member
Posts: 164
Re: How do you go from being an opener to a headliner?
«
Reply #57 on:
May 16, 2008, 06:10:32 AM »
Amen!
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Dave Richards
The artist formally known as Redsavior.
Global Moderator
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Posts: 11719
Tastyfresh Presents... monthly right here on TF
Re: How do you go from being an opener to a headliner?
«
Reply #58 on:
May 16, 2008, 07:21:39 AM »
Quote from: Oneel on May 16, 2008, 06:05:56 AM
X 52billion
If God doesn't want it to happen, it'll never happen. It's always important to remember who is really in control.
But... likewise, don't discount the advice of others just b/c God told you "x" would happen. Sometimes that advice is needed or "x" WON'T happen. You just have to be discerning with the advice you get.
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"If I had a dog that was following a chicken around eating it's poop, the chicken may not have been the only animal to go..." Nino, 3cell records
thepudd
J Puddy, Jonathan Puddle
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Posts: 2344
Re: How do you go from being an opener to a headliner?
«
Reply #59 on:
May 16, 2008, 07:29:50 AM »
Quote from: thepudd on May 16, 2008, 12:05:36 AM
I'm just saying don't count God out of the equation. Listen to Oneel, Shiloh, Joel, the people who have worked hard to establish credibility, and follow their advice. But also spend time with the Lord, seeking his face and his direction.
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