How do you go from being an opener to a headliner?
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Joel
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« Reply #30 on: May 13, 2008, 07:28:29 PM »

Joel...I'd say they either lack that "something" it takes to make that step,  or they lack the drive it takes to jump to the next level.  Everyone who's become a major DJ has spent a significant amount of time opening.  It's just the proper way to hone one's craft.  Opening is WAYYY more difficult than headlining. 


i'm not arguing the process or that its more difficult to open, but if you are an opening dj you are playing a certain energy or a certain sound and just as it is difficult to switch genres up as a producer, its the same for opener to headliner.  if you have a reputation for being a good opener, you're more than likely going to be booked for more opens than headlines, at least in vancouver anyway.  victoria, nanaimo or whistler, different story.  there's actually room to build up in those towns, but vancouver is run by several DJ's who run their own nights as apposed to promoters who book them.  So these DJ's turn their backs on anyone who has potential to rock rooms.  If you play well in Vancouver as a newcomer, you probably won't play again unless you find obscure indie places in houses.   so in the case of vancouver, you will NEVER be a headliner unless you are famous and from out of town or country.  That and not that I'm a good DJ, but my first gig I headlined with Ike, now I can't get opening gigs.  In my case I'm trying to go in reverse almost so I can build up my experience.  Vancouver is to new DJs and openers, like Nazareth was to Jesus.   If you don't believe me, ask Shiloh or Sonic Union.
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« Reply #31 on: May 13, 2008, 08:14:52 PM »

Joel,

It's a lot like that here in Jacksonville as well. All this drive and dedication and time served stuff sounds great, but it's not all grounded in fact. Being a shrewd businessman and learning how to sieze your own piece of the pie is the only way you can really make it in the nightlife business... and it aint easy, even with talent.
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Oneel
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« Reply #32 on: May 13, 2008, 08:38:25 PM »

Bill..

I've dealt with that guy that kinda runs the show down in Jacksonville...Can't remember his name,  but he does shows at Bourbon Street/The Blue Room...Cocky little dude from my experiences.

Joel...

Vancouver sounds a good bit like Atlanta,  which is almost exactly the same situation that it is in almost any city.  If you're not in the clique,  you're S.O.L.  Ask Kenneth Thomas....he had the same situation in Detroit.
The Solution?
Find a small venue where you can do something.  Work your tail off to promote it...Then move on to bigger venues.  You already have one leg up on ol KT because you've already broken into the producers circle.  It took him a while to get through that one.  If you'd like to talk to KT about it,  just PM me and I'll shoot you his number.  I know he'd love to hear from you.

My current issue?
I'm not having to simply build a group of people who like to hear me play EDM,  but rather simply a group of people who like to hear EDM.  Isn't easy,  but isn't impossible either.  I'll be happy to give ya whatever advice/help I can as well.
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Christopher Carl
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« Reply #33 on: May 13, 2008, 09:16:11 PM »

OK I'll just keep plugging away at it.
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« Reply #34 on: May 14, 2008, 01:13:16 PM »

Joel...I'd say they either lack that "something" it takes to make that step,  or they lack the drive it takes to jump to the next level.  Everyone who's become a major DJ has spent a significant amount of time opening.  It's just the proper way to hone one's craft.  Opening is WAYYY more difficult than headlining. 

I'm not so sure that it's way more difficult to open than headline. The headliner has a certain reputation or expectation to uphold. The opener can pretty much get away with anything as long as the floor is moving. The headliiner has the aura that better be fulfilled or people will not want to pay to hear him/her again. I think the key is getting tracks released and lots of networking. I've seen plenty of "headliners" that are definitely nothing special behind the decks, so why are they there? Because they've either A) put out a significant amount of good tracks or B) because they've convinced someone that they are something special and deserve to be there. I also agree that confidence is key, not arrogance, but confidence that whenever you play and before or after whomever, you can rock it with your own style. Cutting out a niche and standing out from the typical DJ of your genre can make a big difference.
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« Reply #35 on: May 14, 2008, 01:47:17 PM »

Some "auras" are very easily upheld.  i.e. Oakenfold (all he has to do is play a bunch of the same sounding stuff without trainwrecking), Digweed (he just has to sample the latest from his own label), Tiesto (Oakenfold all over again, just a slightly different flavor), DJ Icey ( laugh), Dave Richards (who's that?), etc., etc., etc.
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« Reply #36 on: May 14, 2008, 02:07:32 PM »

Some "auras" are very easily upheld.  i.e. Oakenfold (all he has to do is play a bunch of the same sounding stuff without trainwrecking), Digweed (he just has to sample the latest from his own label), Tiesto (Oakenfold all over again, just a slightly different flavor), DJ Icey ( laugh), Dave Richards (who's that?), etc., etc., etc.

Just saw Icey last weekend,....yeah I remembered why I stopped listening to him... its like he plays the same set almost every time I see him.
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« Reply #37 on: May 14, 2008, 02:32:35 PM »

Joel...I'd say they either lack that "something" it takes to make that step,  or they lack the drive it takes to jump to the next level.  Everyone who's become a major DJ has spent a significant amount of time opening.  It's just the proper way to hone one's craft.  Opening is WAYYY more difficult than headlining. 

I'm not so sure that it's way more difficult to open than headline. The headliner has a certain reputation or expectation to uphold. The opener can pretty much get away with anything as long as the floor is moving. The headliiner has the aura that better be fulfilled or people will not want to pay to hear him/her again. I think the key is getting tracks released and lots of networking. I've seen plenty of "headliners" that are definitely nothing special behind the decks, so why are they there? Because they've either A) put out a significant amount of good tracks or B) because they've convinced someone that they are something special and deserve to be there. I also agree that confidence is key, not arrogance, but confidence that whenever you play and before or after whomever, you can rock it with your own style. Cutting out a niche and standing out from the typical DJ of your genre can make a big difference.
incorrect. it is FAR harder to get a crowd moving then to keep a crowd moving. you can play filler after filler once a crowd is ready, but to get them ready you have to build it slowly, you have to know when to drop a filler and when to leave it abit more mellow...
and i would take oneels advice, hes been doing this for alot longer then most of us have.
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« Reply #38 on: May 14, 2008, 03:29:14 PM »

Filler . . .hmmm.  Reminds me of Oakey. laugh
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« Reply #39 on: May 14, 2008, 04:19:47 PM »

Joel...I'd say they either lack that "something" it takes to make that step,  or they lack the drive it takes to jump to the next level.  Everyone who's become a major DJ has spent a significant amount of time opening.  It's just the proper way to hone one's craft.  Opening is WAYYY more difficult than headlining. 

I'm not so sure that it's way more difficult to open than headline. The headliner has a certain reputation or expectation to uphold. The opener can pretty much get away with anything as long as the floor is moving. The headliiner has the aura that better be fulfilled or people will not want to pay to hear him/her again. I think the key is getting tracks released and lots of networking. I've seen plenty of "headliners" that are definitely nothing special behind the decks, so why are they there? Because they've either A) put out a significant amount of good tracks or B) because they've convinced someone that they are something special and deserve to be there. I also agree that confidence is key, not arrogance, but confidence that whenever you play and before or after whomever, you can rock it with your own style. Cutting out a niche and standing out from the typical DJ of your genre can make a big difference.
incorrect. it is FAR harder to get a crowd moving then to keep a crowd moving. you can play filler after filler once a crowd is ready, but to get them ready you have to build it slowly, you have to know when to drop a filler and when to leave it abit more mellow...
and i would take oneels advice, hes been doing this for alot longer then most of us have.

Maybe I wasn't clear. I agree that choosing the right tracks at the right time is important as an opener and you're right it is easier to make a crowd move that is already sweating. My point is there is not the expectation of the opener as with a headliner, that is all. A lot of times an opener doesn't have the pressure of playing to a packed floor, if he/she can get the place bumping that is a bonus. Also, what about the headliner that plays house and goes after the opener killing it with dnb? Opener plays what he wants, headliner has to make the smooth transition and keep the crowd. That is certainly more difficult than dropping whatever you feel like with no expectations
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« Reply #40 on: May 14, 2008, 05:18:41 PM »

youre right, headliners do have an expectation. but its the sort of expectation like, at my job, being able to work a UPS workstation (i can). its my job and ive done it long enough so that i am expected to do it right.

however, it isnt a bonus if an opener gets the crowd bumping. its his job. secondly, as an opener, it is your job to open for the headliner. the headliner is more important then you are. if the headliner is going to be playing house, you cant play dnb, you get to play house. you get to play lower bpm, less energetic, same genre.
think of it this way, as an opener, you serve the headliner and his needs. if he is playing 130 house, you have to play mid 120s house. you dont get to choose.

if you cant be trusted to open properly, how can you be trusted to headline?

also, by filler i mean floorfiller. never play subpar music as filler.
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« Reply #41 on: May 14, 2008, 05:31:18 PM »

Openers do one thing. They make the headliner shine. That's it. That's their purpose. If the crowd is in a great mood, it doesn't matter how bad the headliner is doing. They'll have a great time. If the opener sucks... don't expect the headliner to do well.
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« Reply #42 on: May 14, 2008, 08:42:05 PM »

Also, what about the headliner that plays house and goes after the opener killing it with dnb? Opener plays what he wants, headliner has to make the smooth transition and keep the crowd. That is certainly more difficult than dropping whatever you feel like with no expectations

That's called either a stupid promoter or an arrogant opener.

Getting the floor to move requires great skill.  A good opener knows how to set a mood,  build momentum on a floor,  and have the floor primed to just a touch before blowing up when they go off.  They hand over a floor ready to blow up to the headliner.

Headlining just requires getting up and doing your thing.  Opening requires you to mold your thing to compliment someone else's thing.
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« Reply #43 on: May 14, 2008, 09:04:56 PM »

It's not rocket science and it's basically the same thing as any type of opening job be it rock or edm. Openers create anticipation. That's it.
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« Reply #44 on: May 14, 2008, 09:34:09 PM »

Also, what about the headliner that plays house and goes after the opener killing it with dnb? Opener plays what he wants, headliner has to make the smooth transition and keep the crowd. That is certainly more difficult than dropping whatever you feel like with no expectations

That's called either a stupid promoter or an arrogant opener.

My thoughts exactly.
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