No.

This was actually handled more as a philosophical debate rather than a political one.

In reality, what changed Adam? I'm still a hard core conservative and Pudd is still 100% in support of Finland's system AND still thinks I need to open my mind.

And that... is really the point. Nothing changes ever when we have these debates here. It's not just the fighting, it's the fact that nobody is willing to change their position and neither can they convince others to change. So... this was a multiple page waste of time... unless you're like me and you just like to debate.

It's ok Dave. Whenever I speak on something Biblical that I feel strongly about I get the same reaction. I never say that I know it all, I merely have found some Biblical truths that work for me and I want to share them, but I get accused of saying that I have it all figured out. Hardly. But I guess people out there are awfully sensitive nowadays.

(sissys).......

Correct.


But this shows Dave's mindset. That he doesn't think anyone will change, himself included. This comes up over and over again, with every discussion like this, Dave's point is, "This is pointless, no one will change their mind". And I think it's arrogant to assume you know.

Because while I am still in support of Finland's system, and I do still think Dave needs to open his mind, my perspective on America has turned almost 180 degrees based on this conversation.

America scares me, it's done so for a while, for loads of reasons (which I'm not going to indulge here, for obvious reasons). And Dave has done A LOT in this thread to challenge that fear and the reasons behind, and allow me to see things from his perspective, regarding freedom and control of money. I'm not trying to rib him here, I'm being honest.

Case in point: Until this conversation, my perspective regarding American health care was  "Man, it must suck to live in America, having to pay for your health care." I honestly saw nothing positive about it, at all. Same with much of the others things we've talked about in this thread, my perspective was that it was backward, capitalism favoring corporations, and that more socialist policies were the key to fixing such problems... and that everyone in America either also thought it sucked, or didn't know how much it sucked... and was waiting for someone to deliver them from their ruined country. Sound far fetched? Travel outside the US and ask people from almost any country, what they think of the US.

Call me narrow, but I don't think the benefits that Dave has touted ever crossed my mind. I hadn't actually considered the possible payoff of choosing to invest my own money for my own health care. I only saw that as a negative, now I can see some positives. The only benefits I saw before were to evil money grabbing corporations. Whether I'm ignorant or not, point is...

I don't feel that same way anymore. Our philosophies are still at odds, but Dave has done more in this thread to evangelize the ideals of American freedom and the positive impact on society that freedom can have, than anyone has done for me ever, in my life.

Socialism? Yes. Capitalism? No. Don't get me wrong, when someone is practicing unfair business tactics, there's issues and it sucks. No company should bully another or its customers. However, it's none of my business or the government's how much money a CEO makes. That's between the CEO, his board of directors and his stockholders.

Question 1): Do most people earn wealth or inherit it?

Or desire by the poor to do what is necessary to break out of poverty. That's another issue though.

Just thought I'd let you guys know that this is now the 15th longest thread in Chill Out (out of  1,684 threads).

That is all.

The person who earned it, WITH certain caveats!

Anywhere you live, there is infrastructure that needs to be paid for. As a citizen who is eligible to receive the benefits of these services, you need to pay for them. If you're a citizen who plans to not use such services, then you need to either be happy paying for them for unknown circumstances in the future, or you need to live somewhere that only make you pay exactly what you use.

Here I suspect we disagree already. I am happy to contribute to my neighbour's health-care, and I think the idea of paying for only what you use is a pipe-dream, as you don't know what you will use or need.

Have to get some dinner. More caveats later.