Yeah. I am sick of what the church has become in some ways, but there's also a lot of good. I certainly wouldn't say I hate the church or I hate churches, but I do hate a lot of what Christianity's become.

I guess my caution is that the Enemy will use whatever he can to break us apart, to bring about arguments and so on. So saying you hate churches or hate the church, I think that can be a slippery slope

Thanks for the elaboration, I'm feeling you a bit more now. And yeah, no arguments there.

i knew what you meant alex, i pointed it out so you could think about it abit and maybe itll keep you from saying something that will burn your bridges.
alex

i believe that is john piper quote... or michael brown...

souljuice, you said the point of christian dance music is to bring people into worshipful dance, not human led dancing... why cant i just dance cuz i like the music and want to dance?

Gal 5:19  Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are [these]; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
Gal 5:20  Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
Gal 5:21  Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told [you] in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

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i'm an 'african-american' in an urban church.  and we get down.  we're like 20/30% dancing hard, we even have dancers in the middle aisle; but most are dancing, except for some youngsters and teens.  but our style has been getting heavier, using some funky harp and bowl, and it's been moving us.  i got a wide background for w music styles and we been incorporating them into our services in rapid speed and the bishop is loving it and speaking on a new sound he hears developing for us.  i currently don't perform with them, but now I'm drawn to dance and dance hard.  It first started happening around the same time I was escorted by my DADDY to yall lovely folks and misty edwards.  now grace potter.  and i'm rocking on tye tribbet, since my sister's mention and i'm feeling awesome, this dancing is pulling these shackles of false humility and pride right off of me, not to mention increasing my praise and worship capacity.

 i was giddy over justice. but still am, but HE is still getting the glory even if it is not their plausible or primary intention to serve ELOHIM.  they'll be known by their works and judged by their faith, like us all.  i feel if this were discussed more in church, just those two strongholds we're breaking(pride and false humility), i think we could fix the function which invalidates our 'unorthodox', as brother wilson states, variable.  teaching people things they already know is where we are, nothing new.  and if we can get actually dig up some forgotten history(like myself and others are doing with food, herbs and touch compounded with prayer and fasting) thank GOD FOR JESUS.  we won't suffer where we our going, and if he gives us tools let use em here.  it helps with some people to tactfully,  with couth and dignity share with them earthly knowledge only to promote the Kingdom's.  remember a big part of the end battle is in our heads, that is why Christ transitioned at Golgotha(place of the skull).

and the flags are like Moses having his arms held while Joshua was fighting.  The let the enemy know for without a certain doubt calvary has arrived.  i praying for a day when i saw i see people praying prostrate before the lord, mineral crystal inlay of furniture and altar(spirits do inhabit items, while not make it the HOLY ONE?), dancing, flag twirling, ribbon waving, essential oil infused anointing oils blessing be used on whole congregations,healing tea parties, clay treatments,  re-instituting old feasts to foster fellowship and directives/lessons of said feast, not for the sake of tradition of man, but intimacy, acts breed intimacy in sentiment, which brings higher focus on GOD not just words, and thoughts only take you so close(except for adultery, because then the mind is enough, or divine prophecy which is not a thought,unless polluted::read EZEKIEL 20::,though sometimes perceived as by some; but a vessel that usually has actions to initiate them into illumination(i'm having a lil fun here, cheeky as you'd say)  but GOD's light, not man's and especially not wood and stone being worshiped, hear.

 p.s.  the person being knocked around, maybe JEHOVA RAFFA(our  physician)  is telling you to move out of the way and mind the queue so you can get your increase.  they said if the lord keeps you up late, maybe's he trying to tell you something, and if you are being assaulted, better a hand be cut off than offend said member.  or maybe they should be a little more careful.  compromise is great spice, let's not kill ourselves with it, condition and dose normally denote poison, not the pure, unadulterated substance( some exceptions will apply, like my verbosity, patience is a virtue you know,  !

thanks for being a blessing all

I guess, if I had been more specific, I was reading NIV, which actually uses debauchery and orgies in it's description. And it's not in exactly verse 19, the entire section is like 19-26.