I just like putting "feet to faith" that's all.  These Dj's lift up Jesus Christ, and I think we should support them and boost their ratings so that more people know about them.  In turn they become more successful and have a larger group of people to minister to.  To me it doesn't matter if they are "good or not" what matters is that they are helping spread the Good News.  And might I add that AH, Shiloh, DBA, and the like ARE really good when compared to the secular market(or the "entire everybody market," if you prefer).

I've got to say that even if I wasn't a Christian I would vote for Andy Hunter over Tiesto any day.  Tiesto is good, and I'm not knockin' him, but I like Andy better Thats IMHO though.

I close with this...everyone seems to knock the Christian scene, but before I would knock it, I'd ask myself what am I doing personally to strengthen it.  I like the way AH has the midi signal to promote his music...I think it's a great way to get his music (which points to Jesus) out into the secular crowd.  This kind of stuff is how we can improve our scene and put "feet to our faith."

Whatever works...whether you create a separate scene, cone the worlds, or jump into the worldwide market or the as I said...or heck... you could do all of the above.  I'm just saying whatever means that we can use to boost Christian artist exposure, like the DJ list , we should do it.

It's awesome what you guys have done here and I seriously appreciate your work, Reds, as well as everyone else involved in Tastyfresh, and "the scene" - however you prefer to define it.

Peace My friends
-Matt

Regarding The Christian Scene not selling enough CDs, having enough money, or being accepted as successful in the world's eyes....is that really the goal, or is ministry the goal?  

How much money does Tasty make in a year?

Andy Hunter may not see a need for a Christian scene, but without it his current album would not be out right now.  (It released on Sparrow/EMI exclusively, a Christian record label.)

I'm not bashing Andy, and most of you should know that since I have defended him so vigorously on past threads, and because I am a huge fan of his music.  Just because I love the guy doesn't mean I agree with everything he says or that I'm not able to think for myself though.  I support Andy, and I think he is doing the right thing for his calling, but I don't agree with him that there is no need for a Christian scene to exist.

I support Shiloh and what they are doing 100%. - Their calling is to the Secular scene.

I also support Davo and Demulcent 100%.  - He definitely markets to the Secular scene, but he focuses pretty heavily on the Christian one.

They are different parts of the same body.  They function differently, but they are part of the same team.

likewise:


Overall, the xian market has NOT supported dance music. Our music has NOT been welcome in xian bookstores for years now. Our music has not been welcomed as among MOST xian radio stations. Our music is largely unknown to the xian community mostly because the xian industry has not embraced it like it has other genres of music. Sure it did in the early 90's and it was considered just a fade, but by 1995, just about every N*Soul CD had to be special ordered by the largest xian bookstore chains in the nation.

Sparrow supporting Andy is just that. There is nothing wrong with them doing so. That's great! From what I understand and have observed though, the CD did not sell well. Where it DID do well was in lisencing and THAT probably got Sparrow some great exposure AND cash. That alone more than anything is probably why we have "Life". EMI, as one of the BIG 5 has stockholders to answer to. Andy's looking especially good thanks to all of the movie and TV exposure. Every showing, every print, every re-run equals money that goes back to EMI. When the REST of the dance music here has the ability to generate cash like that, it will be embraced...more so. As is, even now you will be hard pressed to find most xian radio stations playing Andy Hunter.

Just look at Tooth and Nail. Great label. They pretty much defined xian rock in the 90's. Xian rock still is not embraced widely by the xian community. The bands that make it are there are still heavily laden with ccm influences. T&N though made took xian rock to the secular scene in a fairly large way that eventually led to both Switchfoot (who has also made it now in CCM land) and POD among others "making it."

Carey,
My statements (i'm assuming this is why you posted the last two posts) were not meant the way you took them. I am NOT detracting from the fact that some people are called to focus their ministries in the church. I would NEVER do that. What I am saying is that the ministry in the church is still basically non-existent. It has not grown in the past 5 years and the impact we have had over all in the church has not truly increased, but shrunk. The main reason we see djs now in some praise bands is not b/c dance music is cool, but because rock bands like Linkin Park made it cool.

Maybe I'm cynical, but I am tired of us doing the same things and NEVER improving, NEVER growing, and NEVER impacting the church or the secular scene. As a whole, we look at 5-10 people and say "Wow, look at the growth" and then don't build on it at all. There is a lack of commitment among MOST people associated with our scene. We are mostly talk, but never do we go further. We toss up excuses (some are legit) and we just keep saying we are waiting on God. I think it's more like God is waiting on us. We should be where the Holy Spirit leads and right now, it's leading to the secular scene. We can't abandon the Church and we should support it as much as possible, but the mission field is not in the Church. I know it, Shiloh knows it, DBA knows it, Davo knows it, Andy Hunter knows it... I could go on.

The questions are:
When will we all start working together?
When will we put all of the petty turf wars we have going one behind us so we can build on a firm foundation?
When will we actually start taking actions that will lead to us impacting this world as God wants us to?

Well? I for one am tired of sitting back. I think you are to. Can we do that?

Now this is a great conversation point.
Cynicism has its place. Without people who can have a genuine cynicism about things, we can find ourselves easily growing comfortable with sub-par traditions. I myself can be cynical too, and I would love the opportunity to rant. I won't name names... but there's a lot of problems in our specific "part of the body" that I've seen.

For one... why aren't people flocking to be involved with Electric Circus? Yeah, I am busy... sometimes I can be hard to get in touch with. That's one of my problems I'm dealing with on a day by day basis. I'm also not putting myself on a pedestal here... but let's face it. The show broadcasts in market #36, that's no small potato. It also broadcasts on two other FM stations... across the entire country on Skyangel... the entire world via the internet... with TENS OF THOUSANDS of hits each month on the archive stream alone. WHY aren't people FLOCKING to send me tracks, liners, promo material, and such? Man. It makes me sad, seeing such a lack of motivation in so many people. (though there are those few who are extremely motivated and it makes my heart really happy to see people who love their ministry enough to really do it)

The thing is... Electric Circus is just one program. It's most definitely not the only one out there, and if people aren't flocking to get stuff on my show, how many more people aren't flocking to get their stuff on the others? It's logical to assume that problems or disinterest I see are only repeated and possibly worse in the eyes of other people in my position.

People know that I harp about "radio edits" all of the time. That's only part of the picture. There are a lot of people who work their tails off... and most of them, myself included, though we work our tails off, are still way way way far behind being "par for the course" if we're really honest with ourselves. Fortunately, if we keep working our tails off, we'll get there... but we have to know where to work.

For instance... writing a track is such a small, small part of what really needs to happen if we are to be 'accepted' by the xtian scene, AND if we are to get anywhere in the "secular" scene. A track is just that, a track. I can find it on the internet anywhere for free if I look hard enough... so what? Most bands are out there touring their butts off, selling t-shirts, stickers, and all sorts of other stuff. They're doing radio interviews, shooting music videos, and still living off White Castle while trying to pay for guitar strings and drumsticks. If they weren't doing that, they would be just as "under accepted" as we are.

Musicians need to decide what market they are going for. I've written about it in an article here before, I will retort it again. Pick a market! Either go secular, or you can go christian/mainstream. If you go secular, we're talking clubs and the underground scene, not top-40 radio. Those producers need to figure out how to get their stuff on wax and get it into clubs... get it into DJ's hands... get it on DJ labels. Get their stuff remixed by influential remixers, or do remixes of influential artists. If you try to sell ONLY the traditional, instrumental, 9 minute long tracks (only, as in without any radio/mainstream friendly songs on an album or single) to the xtian market, we'll stagnate, I PROMISE YOU THAT.

If the musicians decide to go for the xtian or top-40 scenes (or both), getting the extended DJ remix support is important, but you won't get anywhere without writing radio songs, and I'm not talking about writing a 3:00 minute version of your 9-minute long vocal-less or one-vocal-sample club track. I'm talking about writing a pop song with an EDM beat. But that's not all. Touring, playing shows, doing interviews, doing web street teams and such, that's the only way to get ahead.

I'm telling you people, we'll be all fine and dandy if we just write tracks. But figure out which market you're going to shoot for and start working on it. I don't really care if people decide to go for the underground/club market, or if they shoot for Christian/top-40. I just want to see people make a decision and pour their hearts into it. For crying out loud, I need to do the same thing. I'm part of the problem.


The only question worth answering publically is the last one. The rest of the questions should be answered between you (the reader of this post) and God, and let your life be changed and your actions be the answer to those questions. The ones who are serious about their ministry and walk with Jesus will be able to see your answer clear enough.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that there should not be christians in a christian scene. I am saying that for the most part, that scene does not exist and the doors seem all but closed for one globally at this time. The door to the secular scene is however very open.

Ultimately, we collectively need to decide what our goals are. Is the goal simply to have fun? Is it to share the gospel? What is it for? Yes, a person on a personal level can have a different answer, but collectively, we need something to work toward and a plan to acheive that. We can't do that if we are constantly arguing as we are now about having fun, sharing or whatever. All may be valid, but we have NEVER come up with a cohesive goal and plan to acheive it. Rish's points are 100% valid and even mine only partly point to the answer. When are we going to sit down and decide what we are doing collectively.

or is that just it... we are not and we shouldn't? Are we to remain a house divided against itself?

Andy's album may be economically successful because of licensing, but that could not happen if his music was not released...by the Christian label.  It's not just promoting him, it's giving him a support from which he can do greater things.  


Exactly - That's why I asked how much money Tasty made, not to bash it, but to try and put things in perspective.

Someone could look at Tasty from a business standpoint and say that it is not making money and it is not a success.  That wouldn't be true though, because (in my perception anyway) Tasty's goal is not to make money, but to minister.  Not to minister to the lost so much as to encourage, teach, inform, and to allow a place for discussions and synergy to take place for believers.

Someone could also say if it isn't targeted at reaching the lost it is a waste of time.  That's not true either, because what you are doing is empowering believers and equipping them to reach the lost.  It is making them better at what they do, and in turn they can reach people more effectively.  The fellowship that takes place here also motivates them to do the same.

The need for a Christian Scene is for the exact same reason! 

It may not look like it is successful economically, and people may think it is a waste of time since it isn't directly targeting the lost, but at the end of the day it's about making stronger believers and giving them a support base to go out and do what they need to do.