The thing I've been called by God to do is try to raise the bar of professionalism among christians. whether that's through the record label,doing dj worship, or going so far as to lovingly confront the youth pastor at our church it seems God places me in these situations for a reason.

it's time for everyone to WAKE UP out of their halfa**ed slumber and get back to what God has called them to do. no more excuses about how you don't have the time to throw the event God as called you to throw,or you can't drive 30 min. to a CHRISTIAN event to suppor your fellow christian brothers.   no more excuses. PERIOD.

i also know He's called ALL OF US to be humble and to be in fellowship with other believers.

from another thread i posted on....

i can argue minutia all i want at theology web. but i CAN'T get a fellowship of believers who love dance music...apparently i can't get that anywhere any more.  because of stupid, petty bickering.
       it's got to stop. now.  SOMEONE needs to stand up and be the bigger man and FORGIVE.  that means treating the person (people) like they never sinned in the first place.  that IS in the bible, you know....

yes, im' talking about reds,vince,louis,godf,and myself. i'm talking guy cross,josti,carey, and talking dog. im' talking tolldog,pacific mile,and the gang at myx records.  i'm talking steve christopher,mark crosby, and jeremy dawson.  im' talking dyvyne,shana gray and dj lorraine. im talking luke at tranceform productions,organic paradox, and crosstronic.  how about blake potter,PREZ,steve from rubix, timo rosendal,sid 07?   where's djkevinpaul, tronster,tridax,and trancelott?


i know some people have moved on..but who's fault is that? OURS for not being as welcoming and willing to listen.  it's OURS for not providing a welcoming,safe place that is also professional.
whatever anyone has against ANYONE else, let it go!  let's get back to our mission here....it's about JESUS. and it's about that we love dance music.

name droppin' call to action.  Agreed that unity is really important.  I've found so many cool brothers and sisters and stuff here on tastyfresh.  The bad thing about me is that I tend to drift away and get caught up in day to day stuff, and don't come online.  Never interpret my silence as somehow dissing the scene.  Sometimes I am just too busy doing the work of ministry, I run out of time to talk about it on tastyfresh.  Know what I mean?

That's all I've been asking for... even if I fall short of it Davo. Until we move on, we can't move on.

Guys, Davo,
For what it is worth, I don't create music, don't throw events but I am here and have stayed here for prayer support. I still believe in what you stand for. Go get 'em.

Peace and unity are good things. Conformity is not necessaraly a good thing. We can live at peace, I truly believe that.

On a good note, the Lifelight fest will be ending the evening on the "Souled Out" stage with a live DJ set at least on tow nights!! Last year they let us try it on a small stage nad e recieved a good response so this year as the closing hard rock band ends( and one of those will b Project 86!!!) the DJ should come on within abut 15 minutes. It is coming together and the Lifelight people are willing to take the risk I told them at CStone that dance had its onw venue, Maybe that helped!.

PEace

i kinda touched on this in my most recent post in another thread. what jesse is doing is a perfect example of the home base idea. we have to have people praying. i have seen jesse over and over saying i will pray and how did this or that work out? unity is number 2 after determining Gods will for us. but unity may be needed before we can determine Gods will. .. hum..

you're right

i know what i need to do...getting myself to do it is another thing....thank you for speaking up davo

Just to clear the air, I don't have any problems or hard feelings with Josti.

In fact as far as I know the only folks I have any issues with are Reds, Bill, and PK.  If there is someone else who has an issue with me then please contact me at Dancechapel@yahoo.com because I really don't know of anyone else.

I'm already talking with Reds via PM to try and work through things, and Bill is tied into that same situation.

I don't mean to insult either one of those guys by grouping them with PK, and they are nothing like him.  As far as he goes, I am trying hard just to forgive him and move on, and honestly most days I really don't think or talk about him or all that stuff anymore so I think I am succeeding.

Anyway I appreciate what you've said Davo, and I am working on it.

 8)

Man I must be dense! I didn't know there was this much dissent. Carey having issues? With Reds?

I think I will just continue to pray. I don't base my relationships with people on their politics or their musical taste. I mean I have friends who seriously love trance!! When we all know that house rules!

Seriously, you get my drift. Didn't know Reds was the only conserative at a Baptist place, thought they were all neo cons! ;)

I recognize that this is trite and cliched' but as long as I look for the activity of Jesus in a person I can get around the other things that I might not like. '

You know what I mean, the loving care and concern that goes with actually following the Savior not just makeing sure you believe all the right things? ( Davo you mentioned not too much discussion abut Jesus on Guy's board, well you might hunt that thread up and resurrect it. Lot of talk there)

It seems that too often brother and sisters get caught up n the thought that we all have to agree before we can be family or fellowship. NOt really, we all just have to have a comomon savior. I fellowship with a ot of Catholics, Methodists, Even other Baptists, and we DO NOT agree on doctrine but we do agree on the place of Jesus in our lives and the life He called us to live.

Well enough of that, switch off rant mode, got to go and gt ready tp preach two services this morning. I continue to pray for TF because I believe in what it does and becauze I love the peope here. Will continue todoso until the Father tels me to move along. Blessing on all of you,

Peace

issues? on tastyfresh?

I have never heard of such things...

I mean really... has this board been changed over the past years because of fighting? or heated discussions on topics? 

I had no idea...


hehehehe


I'm with ya davo....


I know there are a couple people(not going to name names)  on here that I have tried to contact in the past to try and work out differences... or to just joke around with them in hopes that it would lighten the mood, and help with some sort of reconciliation...., and I have received no response back from them....


It has never seemed right to me for people to hold a grudge...



 the past is the past.. the future is the only thing we can positively effect

I'm not sure that political debates directly damage the progression of christian dance music all that much.

But seeing as political commentry isn't meant to be allowed, it shouldn't really be an issue, and rarely is anymore.

It seems that certain people are very interested in using tf to push foreward christian dance music... where as others see it more as a forum for people who share an interest in christian dance music, (or who are christians and share an interest in dance music) to meet, socialise and discus various issues.  The recent re-vamp was seen as a reassertion of the former over the later, but really, I don't see why there's any conflict between the two.  There are plenty of regular posters here with little interest in production/promotion/djing (at least in any sort of professional sense), and their contributions certainly aren't damaging to the primary aim of tf, even if they aren't directly contributing to it.

Anyway, that's how I see things as a semi-outsider anyway.

allways like to read what you have to say godf, it never even crossed my mind about the various groups of individuals that visit here....that post made me think....but now my head hurts

Thats alright Nate!!! That is not a terminal condition, YOu will recover! ;) 8)

godf: we're split into 2 boards because of politics. others have left altogether because of theology debates.  we're becoming more and more splintered because of it and we're all dying in process. i don't know how spiritual you get,but this is the #1 way the devil works: he splits people off, gets them alone, and then destroys them just like a wolf does to a sheep away from the flock. 

and that's what's been happening for a couple years now.    Dave is doing his best to hold things together and I commend him for that.  he's only human. he's going to make mistakes.  ask him & he'll tell you: i've told him about a few of them. but that doesn't mean i'm going to run off because we don't agree on every single thing.



i understand that, jeff.  i'm not talking about the people too busy to be on every day. we have DJs that are touring that just don't have time. i AM asking for the busy people to pop in and say hi every so often,though...

 i'm mostly talking about getting back to the focus of our mission.   

and it's not politics. and it's not theology. it's christians who like dance music and dance music culture as relating to christians. (whether in a church or the secular realm)

actually, scott (aka FRESNEL) is a great example of a brother in the Lord who went through all the garbage here and even got banned, but he decided to MAN UP and forgive and get on with making music and helping others on TF make music.   
   ask scott and he'll tell you we disagree on just about everything politically..but we have a common goal that is far more important.  it's about being a good christian witness. it's about writing great dance music. it's about helping others reach their potential; whether as a fan or an artist or a DJ.

Yup. Scott and I will NEVER agree politically (on a great deal of things), but I accept him as a brother in Christ who is vital and important to God. He is a man who knows how to show humility and can still well... tear my head off when I'm wrong. The site is better for him being here. Besides, we need at least one Catholic here ;)

I am sorry for my lack of follow thru over the last year if I have offended or pissed off anyone forgive me. I had a lot going on in my life behind the scenes and that took my focus off of what God has called me too. So that Said my life has slowed down some now and I intend on putting a whole lot more of my energies into here and the record label.

Peace,

Thom McGuire

[semi off topic preface of sorts]
i was/am simply expressing thoughts, not making a legal brief, or doctorial theises, or anything of the such. i will confess most people probably will find my thought patterns to be non sequitur, and i can be cool with that, cause i find most of this agreed shared hallucination we call reality (matrix?) to be non sequitur myself.
[/semi off topic preface of sorts]

as the whole virtual community thing... i see the point, and i see how it works,  (i mean i am after all typing here now, right) but is it even close to what god had in mind for the fellowship of belivers? might it (possibly) even be worse (in many, if not at least a few cases) to make it any kind a priotiry for the sake of fellowship, or unity?

then assuming you could treat virtual community as "sacrid" as real honest day to day community... is the church ever ment to be a static sturcture that just grabs more and more people, and keeps them in one physical (or even virtual) location for all time?

seems to be there is somthing essental in the body of christ that longs for nomads, to come and go... people walking together for a time, then going different directions (physicaly not spiritualy of course) with different people, as the kingdome expands. honest emotional community can only reach a finite size after all... there are only so many people we as individuals can really know or care about at any given time...

i am currently seeing technology as a root of many problems in a lot of cases, which is why i am less and less excited about 'electronic' music, or the production of electronic music in my day to day life, and am spending less and less time on the internet. (or with the computer, t.v. or even radio on.)

it is this technology, after all, that gives us the ability to splinter into homogeneous groups of people who, more and more, only associate with like minded people, as we also more and more refine the sources of news (propaganda) input that reinforce our ideas of reality.

as for taking things up a level...
"If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or aclanging cymbal." right?

do what you feel called to do, just know that you can make the best track, mix, set, show, etc... but if you do it at the expence of loving someone along the way, you may (or may not) have missed the point of it all...


in short, if i fall off the tasty fresh map, or the internet all together, i am not alone, or in any kind of danger. (in fact as far as thing like time managment, and exposer to pornography, and other unhealthy stimulus goes, i might be much better off when i finaly get to the place of no longer using the interrnet)  concern and prayers are always apprecitated. but fear not, not being a part of TF, or BLJ, or some other internet "community" is not the worst thing that could happen to me.

Hey D, for the most part I agree. Technology is NOT really making my life any easier. BTW, we're talking about small groups for TF over here: http://www.tastyfresh.com/forum/index.php/topic,902.msg12750/topicseen.html#msg12750 <- You'll need to back up a few posts though... and I may move this thread too.

If political divisions and the sites moderation actually cause people to feel they must leave tasty fresh (something I think has only happened to a few people on the left), then yeah, that'll harm the sites ability to develop in other areas.

But other than those rare occasions, I'm not sure how damaging these divisions really are, and I definitely don't see things as breaking down into different factions.  I know there are certain people I disagree with about alot of political and moral issues, but I don't really see them as a unified camp, working against me on all issues!  And I'd expect them all to be just as helpful if I were to ask them about some music related question as if I were a die hard conservative.  Even those I disagree with most vehemently with over certain political issues, I'd still be happy to help them out with any music related stuff (even if I am just an avid record collector).

Maybe I'm being a little naive as to how worked up people get over these things though.  Do people really think political discussion stoke the sort of personal hatred that would stop tf from being a place where people could share their musical ideas and techniques?  I guess those divisions might stop people from forming really close working relationships, but I don't see any way around that.  Even if no discussions took place on tf, as you got to know someone, this differences will still come up, and still pose the same potential problems.

I feel like this post's abit rambling.  Oh well, I'm tired, and am probably feeling the pressure to live up to natefrogg's praise.

hazey:   i'm not talking about people like aj mora who's off being a pastor now, or others who have been called to move on.  i'm talking about everyone who's still around: we have the tf group, the ukfters, the cyberwisdom group,the phantasmos group,the club worship group,the christianraves group, etc etc.

and no, it's not the end all be all to have cybercommunity.  that's not what i said (! <--frustrated exclamation point) it's not good to splinter off because you're offended at something stupid.  it's rampant in the church,especially in america, and it SHOULDNT BE. 




godf: you don't see it as damaging because i dont think you participated in the producers or events section too much back in the day.   

Do people really think political discussion stoke the sort of personal hatred that would stop tf from being a place where people could share their musical ideas and techniques? 

it was enough that louis (among other people) thought only one point of view was allowed to be expressed here so a whole 'nuther board was formed.  what do you think? and all over what may or may not have been a few SMALL mistakes by a moderator or dave. 
     you need to look at this through biblical eyes.


 why this has turned into a debate with godf is beyond me..... 


..and why this thread doesn't have a 100 posts by now from people is beyond me.   *sigh*  i was really expecting about 50 posts like Thom's......but then again, this is the state of the 'membership' of this 'christians who like dance music' thing...

That's life. This thread is just one start. It will take time Davo. The ones who need this thread now are the leaders like you, me, Hazey, Louis, etc...

I guess I just don't see discussing and debating things as inherently destructive.  Sorry about that.

Turn it around... what do you gain by debating this Godf?

aaah it happens again. without even knowing. 1 thing we all need to understand here is that all of us have different opinions. we need to respect that. and each of us may need to agree to disagree and leave it alone.

When people with different ideas post their opinions about something, that tends to lead to a discussion/debate.

Either tf needs to be a place where only those with identical ideas post, or else people need to feel less threatened when they see someone post a view different to their own.

I never viewed this thread as a battle.  I was adding my opinion to a discussion, in the hope that my contribution would add to the understanding of others, and the quality of the thread.  I don't really understand why that would upset anyone.

i had not noticed that turn in the discussion there.
/me is digesting

WOW.  Well said bro.  I totally agree with that.

Hazey while I may not always agree with your opinion, I always find many of your posts enlightening, and often a different way of thinking about things.  I often read them and never post anything, but I thought I would this time just to say i really appreciate you bro!  I respect what a deep thinker you are, and I appreciate the fresh perspective you often provide.

Carey, that's EXACTLY why I've loved D so much over the past six years I've known him over the net.

its not that the discussion is inherently evil/destructive/whatever. its that when people who have very different opinions on how something should be obtained, they fight for it with a passion. then because they will not say, "you want to do it that way, ok. thats fine. you can, but ill do it this way" they start yelling saying that they are right and you are wrong. it happens everywhere, not just here. dont know if you remember, but when the elections were up something like this happened, but much worse. people just wouldnt say, "thats ok man, you can think that is how it should be done, i think this is how it shuld be done" the began yelling! do we have to bring some archives up?
this is the only problem i see with the HUB idea with TF. people may start, instead of praying and uncouraging, yelling because they think others arent doing it right.

dont you guys remember what happened during the elections? do you want that again? do you want the people that were hurt not to forgive? the people do did the hurting not to apologize?

Weren't political posts banned during the election?  Other than the day of the results?

But this thread wasn't in the least bit heated.

godf: there's nothing inherently evil in discussing & debating things.  :)

this is about FOCUS and BALANCE

we need to FOCUS on the things that really matter,especially when it pertains to what our goals as a community of christians who like dance music are.   that's what this board is meant to be about.

we need to have BALANCE in our discussions as well.  (and in life..if ever there was a biblical concept it's balance).  we absolutely have to stop "majoring in the minors"(the minor things).    at present, we're an extremely 'lopsided'  board.  worried more about dubm stuff than about christians involved in the dance scene.

and that's what this board is meant for.   this used to be a repository of knowledge and wisdom for christians across the world.  now (through no fault of the owner) has becoming a semi-lame chat board to shoot the breeze on that not many people come to.

No doubt it's tricky to run and administer a site like this with a popular forum.  I can see the owner becoming discouraged over people saying things that he may not agree with- especially spiritually and politically.  I can also see him worrying about "are other denominations gonna get the wrong idea of this site or my own personal theological views if I allow such discussions"?  "What if my own pastor goes to my site (Tasty Fresh) and sees all these crazy discussions about things that I do not condone or believe in?"  I can understand the concern.  Here's where a "disclaimer" comes in handy. 

You can specifically say in your own words something to the effect of:

"Welcome to the TF Forum.  While the views expressed on this board may not directly reflect the site administrator/owner/curator of Tasty Fresh, healthy discussion of all things dance and non-dance related are encouraged.  Please respect the moderators and know that any unruley lashing out on anyone for any reason (ie- with those who may not agree with your theology or politics) will not be tolerated and may result in a permanent ban."

 :hug:

Hi, On and off over many years I have been a member on tasty and mainly look at the DJ,and productions threads and personally dont care for politics in any form I get enough of that at church being Vicar's fiance however part of this thread suggests that UKTFer's was formed as a result of political divides, I accept that some peple do only post there because of previous problems on political issues here but the board was set because THE UK THREAD HERE WAS BEING REMOVED so the UK people wanted space to network the UK stuff and not out of any misguided political problems. I post occaisionally on both

I know I shouted in this thread apologies but needed to make sure the point of my thread was s amoungst my waffle  ;)

The core UKers DID leave over political including Guy who started the board. Yes, the removal of the UK board was  a factor, but that was prompted b/c of the political and spiritual discusses being held there and the lack of interaction between the Ukers and the larger site.

All of the are welcome back so long as they can follow the rules of the site. None of them were banned permanently.

I just wanted to clarify what you said MrH.

I really do want to move past these issues.

I don't really want to get into this too far, but since Davo has pointed me here, here I am.

I would like to clarify - speaking purely for myself - that I did not cease to frequent TF  because of 'politics', but out of respect for Dave's intention and desire that TF should develop in a certain way.  This was not a direction which was broad enough for my particular needs in online discussion, since my music engages heavily with issues of life and culture which are not permissible to speak about here. 

Rather than wanting TF to be something it was not going to be I concluded it was better to cease hanging round causing problems for those for whom problems were caused, and do something else instead.

Guy started the UK boards purely on his own initiative, and I hang out there mainly because my friends are there, we can talk seriously about anything and goof around (quite a lot). 

If you want to read a slightly fuller reply to Davo's OP you can do so here http://uktfers.proboards3.com/index.cgi?board=music&action=display&thread=1117824071

In this I say why I still don't think it wouldn't work for me to spend too much time here under the present forum guidelines,  which I respect as the way chosen by this community, even though I cannot prosper within them.

Blessing to all who are trying to find a way forward in what you are doing in a broader sense.  I don't feel I am really qualified to comment on your very interestign discussions elsewhere because I am working in a very different field (Dub and Roots reggae) to most of you, and with a different philosphy of approach, probably.

Shalom

Redsaviour,

Just to say I have read your post,

i don't understand why this was moved to the new groove fellowship boards

i've stated time and time again that i don't understand the point of a "christian rave", or now called a "groove fellowship" i guess, other than for worship or strictly a fellowship thing

go out into the darkness and be lights, or go be a light amongst lights and try to get the darkness to come to the light...

maybe i'm just not getting it or something, feel free to school me anyone...thanks

i will, however, do everything i can to attend a groove fellowship at least once...it just never worked out when they were happening a couple years ago and i did allways want to go, purely for the fellowship part

i'm not trying to be difficult with my above post, i'm just trying to understand the reasoning...i probably should've modified my post above rather than starting a new one....

i think the "groove fellowship" idea is more getting people conected localy and physicaly, removing most of the  layers of TCP/IP from the relationship interface.
ya, dig?


like getting off the internet, going outside, and doing somthing.
(even though that kind of thing is a dangerus move)

Nate, the point is not to do a xian rave/party. It's to hang out and determine HOW to be be a light in the secular world and develop plans to do so. This was moved here b/c the call for unity, forgiveness, and new beginings has to happen before we can do that.

red's post wasn't there when i replied

thanks for explaing red

Believe me nate, I KNOW what your concern is. You should really read through some of the background discussion.

work is extremely slow, i'll read through some of it today

please don't start this debate again....let's all just do what we're called to do, OK?

davo:

i am not the type to sit by idle and not speak up, i'm sorry that you don't like my questions, but as long as i have some i am going to ask unless it becomes against the rules to question things or something

anyhow

i read through a lot of the info and i think it's a great thing and i look forward to being a part of it

i don't mind that or any of your questions, nate.  there is a time and place for that,and it's not on this thread.   

start a thread about the pros & cons of 'in the world but not of it' and i'll participate...

I emailed Dave a bit back just to clear the air a bit and I think overall I'm cool with the situation (the situation where I left hurt me a lot but it's history).

For me the reason why I'm not on Tastyfresh is that I get the feeling that I'm going to get trouble if I post a link to an mp3 which has lyrics that Dave disagrees with (which was the real reason why I left).

As far as the UK board goes it provides me personally with what I want (i.e. balanced debate on a whole stack of issues) and that's what I said to Dave I'd miss when TF went totally dance music related.

it's good you've let that go, louis.  :)

Hate to say this, but for any new folks coming in on this (like myself) it doens't make a lick of sense.

I've read over all the posts, and had a look at the Blue Like Jazz boards, but I still don't exactly know what went down. Is it worth someone doing a quick, no-sided tale of the last few years of Tastyfresh?
Or should I just let it lie.

To be honest, if I should let it lie, then you guys should probably let it lie as well. If you're trying to, then you got my respect. I just feel like I've walked in on something pretty sensative for a lot of folks and I'd be interested to find out about it. If it's a PM subject, then feel free to PM me.

Just let it lie. It needs to be said publically for those who were involved. There are too many people involved to simply keep it to private emails. The "issues" are so old that they don't show up on most if not all of the messageboards... we're talking issues that happened between 1-5 years ago depending on who was involved and the subject.

Fair enough. Letting it lie.

you can always look through here (http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.tastyfresh.com/) and try to get anything you can off of it about the older tastyfresh.

This stuff won't be there adidax. :)

if people are arguing everyone should read The Final Quest by Rick Joyner

Im not around a lot because Im working very hard on what God has called me to do... still picking up after a mad six year stint in Toronto from working at least 3 jobs at a time in the music industry (while in school), and working toward what God wants me to do longterm (it IS music...), I dont have a lot of time or money right now but I do drop by when I can and will be back more when I get through what Im working on now

(btw what is the link for the UK boards since I expect to be more involved in UK in the future... thanks & peace)

btw if anyone needs some inspiration to get to work I posted some stuff here
http://www.tastyfresh.com/forum/index.php/topic,1177.0.html
I didnt read this whole topic so if my post doesnt make sense in the discussion just skip over it, thx :)

http://uktfers.proboards3.com/index.cgi

hi hazey, thanks! :)

np, hope life finds you healthy, and provided for.
shalom.

I'd forgotten how warped tf used to be.  Some of the earlier stuff is really sickening to read.  Cutting down on the range of subjects may be harder on the moderators, but I reckon it's made the site more of a positive influence for people.

You don't know how glad I am to hear you say that godf. I wish others would get that.

I love this place. I've gotten nothing 'cept positive encouragement since I've been here so whatever happened then is completely invisible to this relative newcomer.

Peace in Christ
-Ryan

Yeah, what he said ^^.

Pudd.

Ok - most importantly... i am going to be back on TF more - i decided that - its been about a year since all the crap went on, and its time to bring things back together as much as poss - i am saying/thinking this in public for the first time, but this was always my plan....  also i am palying with production again so need some help :-P

i love the idea of al this especuially the small groups - and if we need one in the UK i guess i could make that happen....

yeah... thats all

much love

G>

Glad to have you back Guy.

On person believes war is never right cause ending a life ends the chance to accept Christ, one person believes war is just because of the precident set in Romans 13 that God has ordained the police and soldiers to get the bad guys.

I praise God for several things:

-= We have the freedom to discuss such issues with out persecution.

-=As Paul said when there was debate over whether or not some one was doing healings for really for God or just for profit, he was happy that Christ is openly preached.. and so am I, even from the mouth of the highest governing officials. Despite whether or not you think he does it for God or profit.

-=We are all smart and can figure out how to love each other and disagree at the same time. Some of us need to think the way we do reason with the culture we touch. I carry a badge of law so I know how to reason from Romans 13. My good friend i a pacifist hippie. ;) He reasons from the character of God. we both come to the conclusion that God loves us, that we love God and that we want to do God's will, co exists with each other peacefully and continue to disagree. Go figure.  8)


I got yer WMD right here. :smiley34: It's called the Spirit of Unity in the Bond of Peace! And the gate of Hell shall NOT prevail!

Peace in Christ
-Ryan

and then there is the hazey, he dosn't belive ether.

as far as pasifism the hazey sees things nekeisha (http://jesusradicals.com/essays/theology/pacifism.html)'s way
and as far as romans 13... the hazey sees things nekeisha (http://jesusradicals.com/essays/theology/Romans13.htm)'s way also. (no disrespect to you as a person and brother, i just dont read it the same way you do, and i should love you with or with out a badge the same... some of us "hippie" types can reson from scripture also.  =) )

i am just saying.

=)

i would be happy to discuss if and when i have the time... over at BLJ (http://uktfers.proboards3.com/index.cgi), or JR (http://forums.jesusradicals.com/), or SoapBox (http://soapboxtees.com/forum/index.php)... (yeah reds i will get back to your points there when i have time again)

shalom.

As many times as I have read statements similar to Nekeisha's, I have always seen flaws in them. At no point do they reconcil what God did in the OT with their beliefs. It's like only taking half the story. We'll talk more on Soapbox.

Jesus niether gave nor implied any authority to his followers for any kind of spiritual justice in violence.

All individuals who are Christians are called to be non physically violent individuals.

ALSO.. some Christians, such as cops and myself are given authoritative office by God (Romans 13) to use violence within that office. I work with kids. When one kids pulls a knife to kille another kid, i violently wrestle it away from him and place him in the cell. When a cop points a gun at a man with a knife who is chasing some lady she better hope he doesn't wield his authority or weapon in vain, he intends to shoot. You mustn't allow personal pacifist philosphy (displayed by Christ) and the violence of authority (explained by romans 13) to be lumped together. They are separate issues. Unless you seriously think that Jesus doesn't want you to spank your own children. And of course it's in love and it's ONLY with the proper legal authority. Violence is a liscenced tool. The authority is God's alone, yet He clearly states in Romans 13 that he deligates this authority on Earth.

peace in Christ.
-Ryan

btw.. the hippie thing was a joke for anyone who knows me. I've lived on communes, followed the dead and been stone for so long it was untrue. God saved me from my destruction but I still dig allot my old culture enough that people still associte me with that.

in another place, and another time.
=)

What D said.

Eh.. that's ok some other time I guess..

I read those things you posted that Nekiesha had written.

The second one only deals with 13:1-2 (submitting) seemed right on. Nekiesha's article on pacifism had one major flaw and that was only that God deligates His authority for vengence. He doesn't do it through church channels though so it doesn't matter one way or the other to any Christian that isn't a governmental official... in that we should all be non-violent turn the cheek pacifists.

Matter of fact, it's cool that Nekiesha  brought that up in the discussion on 13 cause that was her point that a Christian is not to partake in revenge at all.. that's Nek's context for understanding Romans 13. Continue to follow that logical train to a conclusion (or just read it) and one sees that the law officers executing normal governmental authorities are refered to as (13:4)"..God’s minister to you for good. But if you do evil, be afraid; for he does not bear the sword in vain; for he is God’s minister.."

 8) So thanks for the Nek links there.. I don't think I disagree with Nekiesha on anything you posted..
But ah.. if you want to correct me. leave me a Pm. :)

Peace in Christ
-Ryan

i / we are not really supposed to talk about this stuff here. so i *do* want to continue to reason and build with you. i just want to respect the "rules" here.

so if you desire to pick another message board. i will try to take the time to think through things more.

Ah.. didn't know that.
I haven't gotten yelled at for anything here yet but thanks for the warning.

it's all good, no one is upset. that is the main thing.

Check out the rules you agreed to:
http://www.tastyfresh.com/forum/index.php/topic,331.0.html

" If someone makes a political or spiritual comment in a pre-existing thread, that is fine, so long as it does not shift the course of the discussion"
"Any discussion may be locked by a moderator if it is deemed "too heated"

So it's cool in those circumstances if it doesn't get out of hand.
The reason I responed to your comment red was to agree that though we may not all agree on war issues we don't get tricked into letting us divide our Christian unity over that.

Matter of fact, I was trying my hardest to point out the good things we can all agree on.

But it's your call Red, you say move on, done. :) I don't know all of what happened b4 and I don't think I want to.

Peace in Christ.
-Ryan

long story short, this one guy was being an a... oh wait that was me.
haha

It was MOST of us Hazey... and a few ppl who are not allowed here anymore as well. :(

hehe..it was me,wasn't it?    ;D   yeah...we were all out of line a bit.

Hi,

Your mom wants to wake up.

Thanks. God Bless.

Aaron.

*SIGH* 

I do not post too much and haven't been active lately.  I have been involved in what almost became a heated discussion back on the old board.

Anyway, just a few thoughts and a story or two,

• Everytime I here about little problems like this, I sit back and laugh.  Not because I find it funny, but because we prove that we are the family God.  I remember some of my biggest and frustrating (sometimes violent) arguments were with my older brother.  We felt comfortable enough to show our true colors and feelings in front of each other.  BUt after the smoke clears, I know that he is still my brother and I will never walk away from him, and vice versa, this is paramount.  I hurt his feelings and he'd hurt mine, but we are still brothers and stand by each other.
  
  My church recently went through something very similar at a board meeting this summer. Several of our members, including the pastor (who is my soon to be father-inlaw), are part of the local chapter of the Bikers for Christ (http://www.bikersforchrist.org/).  Our church and the BFC do not agree on a few things and what they find acceptable, we do not.  Anwyay, the BFC asked to put on a concert on our facilities....and one thing lead to another....and I made the point that our denomination and the BFC do not agree on some issues.  Several knew what I was talking about, namely poker runs and tobacco use, but it was kept quiet, and some thought they were too worldly.  So, it was a powder keg waiting to explode, and it did. So, the pastor left in the middle of the meeting, as did our SUnday school superintendent, and my fiance, who also sits on the board, went to the alter to pray (the smartest one of us all; that's why I'm marrying her).
  
  After the meeting, my fiance and I talked for hours about what went on.  Her dad, the pastor, called the churhc looking for us, and cried while he apologized to us for his attitude.  Of course I did the same thing as did everyone else who took part in the heated debate.  Our church would not have pulled through this time if it wasn't for the grace of God and the understanding of the people that we are Gods people called together to that church.  Its all about growing together in Christ.
  
  Through prayer and forgiveness, my church has almost come back together.  We have found a way to compromise on the concert and work together to make it happen.  Unfortuantely, we have one member who has reigned her position and really wants leave the church, but her husband, who is still on the board, has chosen to keep his family there.
• I too have been caught up in the middle of a discussion board melt down.  I am the lead admin of my medschool discussion board.  We have offered certain freedoms and people have taken adavantage of them, and now we are tighting things up (especially since people started to complain to the Dean and she cam e down on me for the board "promoting negative feelings."  I didn;t agree with what people posted, but I bit my tongue to allow a more open feel.  After the reports from the dean, we started to tighten up things and now people are saying I'm using my own belief as the bass for this action.  People sometimes get on my nerves (even I get on my own nerves  :smiley1:).
  
  Anyway, its not easy being an admin.  But I agree totally with what discussions are allowed and what are not.  This will not only keep us focused on specific ideas and tasks, but wil also remove distractions.  BUT, like one poster put it, there is nothing wrong having a discussion, but sometimes we need to agree to disagree (I think Saryn said this first).  If after one warning it doesn't happen, then lock the thread and maybe delete it.
  
  Here is a link to a website I found usefule The Admin Zone (http://www.theadminzone.com/forums/mainpage.php)
.


• Finally one question.  I posed this to the lady who is thinking about leaving our church.
  
  If it was God's will to bring you to this discussion board/church, do you think it was his will for you to leave under these circumstances?

Thanks to those who moderate and provide some much to this board.  You love for God and dance music help keep this movement alive.  And to all the posters, thanks for sharing your ideas and promoting this movement.  We are a virtual church.

I want to be more active here and will try to.  But, let me encourage everyone to love one another.

ap

Yeah dude.. this place is pretty calm. Since I've bene here there's been no drama at all that I cand etect, but if I visit other sites I pick up on stuff that leads me to believe that at one time there were people here that wanted to start stuff situations here that may have facilitated it.. I wasn't here so I dont know but what i do know is that people here are generally really cool with each other and the topic of politics is avoided, no prohibited. ;) But what they have going works because I've never seen a real fight here since I've been here. And that's my way of saying good job to the admins for taking care of business. (even if you do have to lock my threads from time to time)  :hug:

<--- Has been here all along, was remaining silent but not any longer...I have been on the down for a bit but now its time. Trying to gather the michigan people check out some of the other posts.

hi dj stenrg here letting you all know that I will be sending a mix to celebrate 10 years of dj-ing for ikon and tasty fresh it will be a collection of hardbag, house and of course trance. please visit anthems.com after december 26th merry christmas to ya all.

This is J Puddy and I have chosen to bump this topic. I read it in it's entirety today, for the first in over 2 years. It brought me peace.

wow, 3 year old threads rule.

wow this is an old thread.

wow! dinosaur!

nice to read it again some names posting I haven't seen in a while...

On average I have now posted once a year for 3 years on this thread.  Please bring it back next june so I can make it four ;)

Seriously

Hasn't anybody noticed how like a family we are having a big row every so often and then getting back on with being a family again.

H