I feel I am being called to put together a commercial Christian dance music album and wondered if anyone here would like to be part of it.

What I would like to produce is an album of covers of classic hyms and conteporary worship songs all done in a commercial trance/ euphoric / hands up and similar styles.

I only have one song so far which is an unfinished (very unfinished, lol) version of amazing grace but have put a link to give you an idea of what i was thinking towards.

http://www.christianmessage.net/gsr/amazinggrace.mp3 (http://www.christianmessage.net/gsr/amazinggrace.mp3)

Please let me know if tou think the album is a good idea and if you would like to be a part of it.

God Bless,

Oh and I better be polite and introduce myself as this is my first ever post.

My name is Sam, I am 29 and live in Sheffield, England. I have been a christian for just over 2 years and it is the best choice I have ever made.

nice sound...good start

I have a bunch of tracks if you would be interested, they are not necessarily "Christian Dance" but I'm a Godly guy and he greatly influences my music which sounds like normal trance and dance music 

Honestly... this was done to death in the 90's between the Nitro Praise series, the Hymns in the House series and even the mYx'd Trip to a Gospel House series.

I would not pursue this idea unless you can find a REALLY good new angle on it and one in particular that raises the bar far above where the best of these series were in the 90's.

The sample you've given I feel falls far short of that.

your going to need a new approach. cant say it any other way...

I disagree. Maybe a different approach but this can be reinvented. I support him.

Pat, would you honestly spin that track out at a club tonight?

Do you really feel we need to be rehashing hymns again?

Seriously.

hymns were written in a certain style, that style cannot be copied into dance music. they have to be fused. use the old stuff as a start, not as a finish.

I personally think some of the strong uplifting synths feel godly already. I feel close to God when i listen to them. They move my soul

I certainly would not. I have to be honest. this is simply terrible. its horridly cheesy, and even below the quality of the nitro praise junk that was released in the 90's.

the other guys are right. you need an entirely new approach. what you have here will simply not work.

hymns are great, dont get me wrong, but nearly every single producer that has attempted this has failed miserably. unless you are already one of the greatest and most creative producers of all time, i would say scrap the project for now.

what you need to do is get back in the studio, start practicing your production skills, and fine tune them with years of practice. when you become supremely amazing and creative, then maybe this can be revisited.

i really hate being harsh on you, but honestly it has to be said.

Musically I have to say that this will be a big flop.  I could maybe see an album with one hymm on it, if you really had to do it, but as a center piece no.  When you look at Watts and some of these early writers there music was actually banned from churches for a time and considered extremely on the fringe then. I think you have to get to that place again with an album idea and push the limits.  Christians are constantly going back to old ideas and not being creative in alot of what they do.  I think you have to be a little more forward thinking with the sound and try something that isn't predictable, and might have a chance at making it. 

Thanks for the honest feedback. Mixed views so far but I think mainly the verdict is to scrap the idea.

I think using my version of amazing grace as an example was not a good representation of what I want to acheave. My production skills leave a lot to be desired. Yes it is cheesy but that bit I got right, I am aiming for that UK commercial sound. Here in the UK and in Europe also commercial dance/hands up/cheese is massive. I know its cheesy and not proper dance music but I think it is the best way to outreach to the secular world. Creating deep progressive stuff or dirty drum n bass is great but it is hard to fit Christian lyrics into these styles and when they are there they are a second thought which dont seem to fit.

I do have a brilliant female vocalist lined up for this too and when I say she is brilliant I really mean it.

here a few secular tracks which better show what I am aiming for. A warning that serious minded producers will definately see it more as pop/cheese than dance:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZHh1IqcuTGc (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZHh1IqcuTGc)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5035J8iaVg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5035J8iaVg)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CmgcxltzhSE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CmgcxltzhSE)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOC9QcHnsBo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOC9QcHnsBo)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfKZhOMyVcc (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfKZhOMyVcc)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OuBmiu68ECU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OuBmiu68ECU)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dAXWNm0bWM0 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dAXWNm0bWM0)

As far a hymns go I would only thought a couple of tracks on the album could be hymns. The ones that fit into this style without too much effort and that are well known. I could scrap the entire idea of hymn covers after listening to how bad they can sound.

I would like most or all of the tracks to be dance covers of some of the amazingly written conteporary Christian rock/pop that is around at the moment. Stuff by casting crowns, chris tomlin, hillsong, sonicflood, mercy me, ect... These tracks have amazing Christian lyrics, much better than the lyrics in commercial dance tracks. If I could produce an album of as good a quality as the albums that are selling huge numbers in the secular world but fusing in the deep and meaningful Christian lyrics, melodies then it could be a powerful outreach.

Really??? Seriously, you need to listen to more music created by Christians. I'll admit, Christians don't add lyrics as much as you might like, but when they do, it's often times "magical."

Topher Jones for example did one called Benediction (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3q2L-T7qCq8) not too long ago.

The bigger question I'd ask you is why does there have to be lyrics?

BTW, are you focused on reworking other ppl's music because you doubt you could write the lyrics?

Don't be afraid to be original.

What!?!? Deep progressive stuff is the best for making lyrics for! Especial Christian lyrics. Also in today's music world your lyrics don't have to be worship related, like i feel your trying to do. You can add a message that is christian message that the secular world will eat up. You can have a positive uplifting message. Also most songs in the dance industry don't even have words. You need to not have a song based on the lyrics or words. That's how you make incredible work. Have an amazing song that when the words come in it takes it over the top. And i know i speak for all of us when saying that every genre can be anything it wants. I have heard great vocals in drum and bass, and great dark bass lines. A great producer can do anything. You should be aiming for putting work of christian producers on a Cd more than an all christian lyric dance songs that all moms and dads would recognize.

I agree that this idea has already been done to death a million times over.

I wouldn't say it can't be done though.

Some hymns and Worship songs can be done dance style, for instance Noah DeSmit's I See Grace or Ex-Cito's God of Wonders and Risen One are good tracks that are Worship songs.

That Frank Nuckless Hillsong Mashup is fun.

It's just that so many people have done this, and so many are still doing it with really poor production, people are already turned off to the idea.

You would have to really "wow" them to make someone listen, and to make a project like this work.

I would say put the idea on hold for now, and work harder at becoming a better producer.

Also, consider what Dave said:

Never forget about "gospel house" it's its own genre for a reason.

Stuff by casting crowns, chris tomlin, hillsong, sonicflood, mercy me, ect...

I like casting crowns!

but to fill a cd full of covers... even when the are great...
but than again if you make it commercial and good sounding why not...
Whatever it's going to be.
good luck!

Very good point

TBH I don't think I've ever heard the phrase "gospel house" outside of Christian circles. It seems like it's typically grouped in with the diva/big vocal-type house as "gay house" (i.e. stuff that gets played in gay clubs).

Shhhh... don't tell him the OTHER name for it.

 :o

Oh, it's out there.

We hear about it a lot because of the obvious Christian connection to Gospel, but it's been around for a looooong time.

It's true that it's not as popular as it used to be.

 :o

you knockin gay house? haha

when do I NOT?

OK I'll step up to this conversation. Many of you know that I have been playing "Christian" dance music for many years. I was a label rep for N*Soul, I own every product they released. I have a Christian Dance collection that probably only Carey Jarvis could rival. I say that to say this. I played Nitro Praise, MYX'd Trip, Hymn's In The House and the other Hypersonic stuff, that praise dance cd that Joey Belville released, all the indie mp3 released worship covers and remixes, I even have the CD's by these new guys Worship Electronica or whatever it's called, etc. I gotta be honest. I'm burnt out on all that. To repeat what has already been said, It's been done to death.

I agree. If you want to do something like this, you need a fresh approach. In order to do that, you need to do some research and look and listen to the old stuff from the past. DON'T REPEAT their formula. Some of it was good, most of it was cheese. I say that and I was probably one of the biggest guys playing all that stuff simply because it was a away for me to sneak in other dance music at church functions.

I honestly do not think that even if you do come up with a fantastic fresh approach that will knock our socks off that you will make any money on it. You will find a hard time getting distribution and even if you did, most people would pass it up for the latest Tiesto or PVD project.

I know I am sounding harsh, but I am just making an attempt to keep you from investing in something that will probably not return the favor.

Instead, put together a solid compilation of great dance tracks produced by Christians. Yes it's been done before, but it will sell.

OK, looks like the general view is to think about this some more before putting in too much time and effort into something like this.

Perhaps because I am such a new Christian and have not heard any of the stuff that you mentioned before made me think too quickly that there is a niche out there. I listened to some of the stuff that you mentioned and in general it is pretty terrible. Apart from Gospel house which I was playing eben before I was a Christian. I didnt think about it as being Christian I just played it because it was good.

On reflection and thanks to your comments I am now thinking that the secular view might be that it is not credible and that finding out that a great producer or act are Christian after liking their music carries more weight.

It would still be great to have some kind of commercial dance act appearing on Christian TV and Radio though but how that could be acheived Im not sure. I just imagined that somehow great Christian Worhip Dance could be created instead of just great Dance music made by Christians if you get what I mean.

Casting Crowns, Mercy Me, Chris Tomlin ect.. is as well if not better produced than most secular rock/pop but the obviously Christian Dance that I have heard is terrible, I mean look at that Nitro Praise Stuff its dire. DreamLab are not too bad though, just discovered them today. Not quite there though.

Anyway I think I will shelve it for now and concentrate on the studio I am trying to build and maybe see what happens later. Maybe when I am better at producing something might be possible, I just thought that all the collective talent on Tasty Fresh put together could easily compete with the production skills of the commercial tracks I listed as examples. Kind of like an open source Christian dance music project with everyone chipping in with what they are particularly good at.

Maybe this open source production approuch is still possible but perhaps not working on a cover but something original?

While I agree with this statement, there's not many people in electronic music that expect that in general :-)


to the original poster:  take a bunch of this advice to heart but don't lose your enthusiasm.  its good to have people that are passionate about what they want to do, do it for the enjoyment.  You've got something on your heart, I think you need to process it a bit, but don't lose your excitement for the awesome spectrum of electronic dance music.  Worship manifests itself in our daily lives when we use gifts for Gods glory and when we use it to better the lives of people around us.  If you use that in conjunction with the music you write, and with the relationships you build you are living out worship to God, its not limited to classic lyrics ( i love hymns ) or modern worship songs.  Get comfortable with worship through your gifts.  Hang out here and get to know people and somewhere down the road I think you might be able to find an idea that might take off, who knows right?  welcome to TF.

AWESOME post Joel  8)  8)

Totally agree.

Yeah, same here.  When something like dreamlab comes out, I just don't enjoy it.

When Nitro Praise 1 came out, it was Innovative and amazing!  Now it's a stereotype everyone is trying to copy.

I do like the MWS Remixes Tresice has done, so maybe it's just a fresh approach or a quality issue.


Dude, you should totally check out Andy Hunter

http://www.amazon.com/Exodus-Andy-Hunter/dp/B00006LI47

Read the reviews there at the bottom of the page, and listen to some of the clips of the songs.

He has several albums out now, and that's his first, but I think it's the most like what you are looking for.

His next best is his newest, Colour, very good, but much more laid back (as a whole).

Also Tresice has done several Michael W Smith remixes that are very good, and are free downloads:

http://www.gerwinkoudijs.com/music/remixes/remixes.html

Also free Download of a Hillsong mashup from Frank Nuckless on the front page of http://www.dancechapel.com

I think you should consider this song by song making them quality and the best that you've ever made.  Produce them as if they were "singles" instead of trying to rush a full project.

You would def have to put your own twists on them... maybe breakaway from the classic melody but with the classic lyrics ect..

I agree nitro praise murdered this idea back in the day but if oakenfold created an album of hymns today I know that it would kick but and I'd probably buy it.
So don't sell your art short!

I redid an old hymn about a year ago that is in public domain so I wouldn't have to worry about royalties ;-)
http://www.wearegoonies.com/newsongfriday/djsiah_turn_your_eyes_upon_jesus.mp3

I could redo the vocals and release that on an album... I think its a pretty good modern update to the old hymn.  I took the idea of making it an electronica lullaby and ran with it.

All this said... I haven't seen one electronica/dance worship project take off really ever... so its a hard market that you're attempting to jump into.

Who did the vocals on that one?

Sounds like the Flaming Lips  ;)

"sing unto HIM a new song: Play skillfully with a loud noise" Psalms 33:3

@Dancechapel

Oh that was me doing the vocals.
Flaming lips eh?  I never listened to them.. heard of them but never heard them.

I do all of the singing on my songs... kind of lame at times haha

Sam,

I spoke to my wife about this thread last night and if you want to come visit me in middlesbrough to talk about your project and help develop ideas pm me it may be good to hook up anyway

Howard

Excellent track djsiah, absolutely love it. It would be perfect for the album if it goes ahead. It is the only thing that has made me think that the project is still a good idea!

I like the Andy Hunter stuff, have heard bits of his stuff before but not his first album. He is a really talented producer. The Tresice re3mixes are spot on too particulary Rain Down as this is a worship song I know and have sung in Church.

Thanks for the verse of scripture ecliptik, making me think.

I think on the whole I will think about any ide I have properly and not rush things. As a new Christian it is easy to think I can do what I want for God but I have to remember that it is the other way around. I have to do what God wants for me. If this is in his plan then it will happen, but I definately dont want to do anything short of the best I can.

Thanks for all your comments they have helped me a lot and I am definately glad I joined Tasty Fresh.

also contact Andy T at Deeplife Records...he defintely has a lot of wisdom and insight into this business

Sparrow records was releasing a Electronica worship project about a year ago called "oceans above"

This should inspire you bro...
http://www.myspace.com/oceansaboveworship

I love it but I don't think that it was ever released into stores :-(

Thanks for the pointer, Oceans Above sound amazing and some good news for you you djsiah, I have just found it for sale on amazon.co.uk and ordered it straight away. Its coming shipped from the States.

just make sure that you do something new, not redo something that has already been done, either in the secular or the christian markets.

wooo I'm gonna go order a copy myself :-)

Covers blow.  Pretty much 90% of the time.  Unless it's Blue Man Group covering "Baba O'Riley"

Instead of pressing a bunch of these to sell,  let's do this.  Give me the cash and I'll go spend it on Tacos.  It'll be just about as effective.

1.  Take the time to hone your musical craft.  It's gonna take 4 or 5 years to really "get it" but it's worth it!

2.  Sourround yourself with those who are where you want to be.

3.  Take all the advice you can.

4.  Don't reinvent the wheel if it's already round.  Consider moving on to different modes of propulsion if you're not into the wheel.

I don't know much about them, just remembered a few hit songs.

Actually I just realized I was thinking of Blind Melon:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qmVn6b7DdpA&feature=related

Flaming lips sounds a little like that too though:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_qJlxrQp8A

Great attitude!

Here's another good dance worship song people should check out:

Tru Funktion - Love You

http://www.24-7prayer.com/cm/shop/product/15/

Unfortunately this sound clips ends before the singing starts, but it's a beautiful love song to Jesus.

"Jesus I love you, Jesus I adore you"

I'll try and put a better clip up myself if I remember when I get home tonight, but it's a beautiful worship song, and the whole CD is worth checking out.

Another great tune from 24-7 is "The Vision"

http://media.24-7prayer.org/thevision/index.html

There's very little I can add to this discussion..

but indeed, tell me WHY does so much christian art miss orginality?
Remixes can be great if you do them extremely well, personally, I totally love 'God of wonders' by Excito.

Last but not least, and a little bit off topic: I'd love to write lyrics for anyone. I already wrote some stuff for Triple D (check 'purpose' http://www.tripled.be/audio.htm).
it is sung by Michelle, the singer of the album of DJ Phase.
I really wrote them as a christian, but in a way non-christians can relate to it:

the lyrics for that song:


another lyric I originally wrote for Gerwin Koudijs and has been used by Triple D, not finished yet:


if any of the lyrics isn't 100% perfect English, forgive me for English is not my mother tongue :P

Me too.  Great tune!

Cool lyrics you are working on :)

Reminds me a little of Shiloh's "Vista Cruz"

@dancechapel

I love blind melon... I remember my older bro had that album and we'd listen to it while driving around during the summer months when I was a lot younger.

Maybe instead of doing covers this project should focus on remixes... for instance do an album of chris tomlin, matt redman, delirious, hillsong united remixes and put them together on an album.

I have the avalon remix album and the newsboys remix albums... they're really good.
The Hillsong London Remixed album is pretty cheesy.. I'd like to see some more worship remixes in general.
It would really ignite young christians with the ability to learn how to DJ at youthgroup and stuff like that.  DJing in church would probably be more accepted from the older generations if they heard us DJing worship tunes.

Ok my tangent is done.

Full O Joy was recently able to do that at his church.

I think the real problem is not that they can't work, but that they've become so cookie cutter that the quality has been lost (with a few rare exceptions.)

thats a good point.
It seems that if they're not cookie cutter, they're at least behind the curve in style.
Most of the next gen dance music is rearing its heads in the under belly clubs.

I wonder if many christian producers/DJ's choose not to spend anymore time there than they need to and that is why we see the secular DJ's more so ahead in style?

thanks..

that might be one of the reasons, but don't forget there's simple MUCH more secular dance music lovers than christian dance lovers, much more secular dance producers than christian dance producers; this makes the chance to find really good producers smaller...
BUT, and this has to be said, still I think we don't have to be ashamed on the quality some of us here achieve!

That's probably part of it.  Some of the labels, like Sparrow are targeting the Soccer Moms, while people in the underbelly clubs are targeting what's actually happening in the club scene.

Even some producers who may have a better handle on their sound may still be a little disconnected from what's hot if they aren't connected with the club scene in town, at least once in awhile.

Some people can't handle that scene though, so I would never suggest they go in if it's not safe for them.


Another good point, and very true!

I think there is more than one reason, and that is why it can be hard to discuss sometimes.

I spent pretty much every weekend in clubs between the age of 16 and 26 either DJing or out dancing and getting seriously wasted. I was going down hill fast until God reached down and pulled me out of the pit I was falling down. I havent been proper clubbing since then. I have been out a a few times but not like I used to. I would not return to that materialistic, hedonistic, selfish and blind world now but I cant help that I like dance music. Its in my blood, just now I want to use it for the glory of God and not for the shame of Man.

some yes some no. the nearest decent club is DC (bout 3 hours) and i dont have anyone that would go clubbing on a regular basis. otherwise i would be in the clibs 2-3 times a month