I just saw a commercial advertising the season 4 premiere of Lost being a first time ever global event. I guess this season, it will air the same day around the world as it airing here in the states. cool.

By the way, http://abc.go.com/primetime/lost if you haven't been there yet. ABC has done an amazing job with the clues and all the teaser stuff. find815.com looks like a pretty decent site to accompany season 4 as well.

w00t! I'm pumped. I remember watching the first episode when it aired and it captivated my mind. I've only missed a few shows since. Can't wait to see what happens next!

(this reminds me that i also lost too)

Looking foward to it.

[quote dj404 ]
I just saw a commercial advertising the season 4 premiere of Lost being a first time ever global event. I guess this season, it will air the same day around the world as it airing here in the states. cool.

[/quote]

That would be good for NZ.  We usually  get them after the states.

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

IIIIILOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOVVVVVVVVVVVVVVEEEEEEEEEELOOOOOOOOOOSSSSSSSTTTT!!!

im so happppyyyy and exciteeeddddddddddd

I was always a season behind... we heard all the fuss after season 1 and so we didn't watch season 2 until the DVD set came out. We watched both seasons during season 3 while we were in Russia (adopting a baby) last year...it gave us something to do. We were hooked!
When Season 3 DVD came out last month we snagged it right away and gorged on all the juicy episodes.
So...I've never seen LOST on tv before, and while I'm really excited that I've caught up on it all...I can't stand the thought that I can only watch ONE episode per week and be interrupted by commercials!  :-\

Just visited find815.com
WHOA! That spent my morning! Very cool! Do you think this Sam Thomas will actually be an integral character this season? I mean...I feel as if I've already seen the season premier...is he just an 'exclusive content' for the website or is this part of the unfolding televised story?

I look forward to this with much anticipation but I'm upset that they moved it to the night I'm working. :(


I went through the same thing; I watched Season One through Two on DVD and watched Three on TV. Three may not be the best example since the first couple of episodes (Jack, Kate and Sawyer Romantic Triangle redux) didn't fare well with most fans. With that being said: It was hard at first to get used to the switch. It did change the pacing, and because I was watching on a Standard Definition set at the time, the picture was Pan-&-Scan, making the camera angles and frames awkward. Later on--especially so when the episodes improved--I think my mind was able to make the adjustment. It was at the very least, tolerable. Your mileage may very.

just about 10 minutes left and....does anybody else feel that this episode was just all over the place? It lacked direction. Still a good watch, but wow...FOCUS ON SOMETHING!

yeah I don't think it ever got on point last season until almost the finale. I def. can't wait for the next episode now, lots of possibilities.

dude...where have you been for the past three seasons....every episode of lost is like that. Its the epitome of evasive...lol

I miss my Charlie....and i cant handle another replay of his drownation.  :'(

I don't think he's dead. Perhaps that scene with Charlie visiting Hurley is real and not an illusion. Remember that window broke open. The hole is big enough for skinny Charlie to fit through. When that room is completely filled with water, the pressure from the other side stops. There is even water pressure on both sides of the window. Charlie very well could have swam to the window and pushed himself free. perhaps....

the island has him

Charlie said he was dead. He told Hurley so. If you can't believe the deceased, who can you believe? ;)

um...Charlie is dead. Get over it.  ::)

Did you not see the big party the cast gave him at the end of last season? It was quite emotional...they all felt like they actually lost him (It's in the extras on the DVD release).

I was surprised there was no tie in with the Sam Thomas story that has been running on FIND815.com

But yeah, I thought there was decent enough focus last night...it was a Hurley oriented episode. I like how instead of the normal 'flashbacks' the writers have now adopted 'flashforwards' so you can see where the story will be evolving.

So far we can tell that there were only 6 castaways rescued (Hurley said "Im one of the Oceanic 6") and none of the rescued have mentioned 'other survivors still on the island' as evidenced by the mysterious black 'visitor' of Hurley's at the institution AND when Jack asked Hurley "if he had told anyone".
For me...that's more than any single episode has divulged about the storyline to date! So...I thought it was strong.

Now who are the 6?  We only know Kate, Hurley and Jack were. The other 3? (Hurley had left Jack and opted to follow Locke, but evidently he came back in time to be saved...he may have had a contingent follow him back...who knows?)

edit: I think Sawyer too..cuz last episode of season 3 Kate said to Jack when they met secretly, "I better get back before 'HE' wonders where I am" or words to that effect. Could be anyone, but I don't think Sawyer would let her get away from him at this point. So   two more...  Jin and Sun?    ::)

I think Ben was one of them. My theory is that it was his viewing that Jack went to. Locke would be another possibility. Both people who were not friend or family whose death would effect Jack so much.

When the "Oceanic lawyer" showed up, I turned to my wife and said, "Oh, no! It's the Haitian!" :laugh:

Later, I speculated about a Lost/Eli Stone crossover! :laugh:

Only 6 made it, where are the rest?

Still alive and back on the island.

When "dead Charlie" told Hurley "THEY NEED YOU!" I think he was talking about the people still on the island.

That's the big secret they aren't telling, there are a lot of other survivors still there.

Anyone ever notice how clean shaven Jin always is, yet everyone else looks shaggy  :smiley23:
Or maybe it was only in this episode, can't remember last season...

True, but really all of them look a whole lot better than they should after 93 days on the island.

charlie is dead.


by the way...this is the best show on tv.

we have to go back! WE HAVE TO GO BACK! - haunting words

Yeah...I dont think there's any question or mystery behind the "They need you" message. It's obvious he was talking about the islanders still there.

I had forgotten about the funeral scene...MAN...John, that's stellar detective work. BEN!! Of course!! It could be John Locke too. No one would attend either man's funeral if you think about it. John had no one in the real world...Ben certainly didn't either. It's wild...I can't wait to find out who was in that coffin. Can't believe I had forgotten that part...they didn't even mention that part again in the synopsis before the show. Hmmm.

John Baker is a genius! Are you writing for this show? If it's not Ben, it just will disappoint me now!  LOL

No secret to us that's what he meant, but BIG secret in the world of Lost that there are still other survivors than just "The Oceanic 6"

It starts here on Feb 15

Episode #2...tonight!

 alot of asians dont seem to grow alot of facial hair. maybe daniel dae kim isnt a hairy man?

john i totally agree with you that its either ben or locke. My first thought was that maybe it was sawyer, cuz no one showed up. Then he later said to Kate, " I thought maybe you'd be there" and i had this HORRIBLE thought that Ben somehow manipulated kate into being with him HAHAHAH....but yeah...Ben had no one, Ben had cancer, and Ben had wanted to stay on teh island which didnt happen thanks to Jack.
and yeah....i think its quite clear the rest are on the island, and charlie is dead. Dominic was all teary in the extra thingy on the season 3 dvd.

I thought it was the funniest thing when that cop was like * do you want me to throw you in a mental instituation!?* and hurleys all like THANK YOU THANK YOU!!!!

but the thing about charlie...it was weird that the other guy saw him too......and im pretty sure leonard was still there as well. I wonder if we'll ever find out anything about libby being there.....hmmmmm

I hate seeing Jack so messed up though....

I love what they've done through the seasons with Hurley's character. He's growing more confident and not taking nearly as much crap but is still a gentle peacemaker at heart. He just wants to help but isn't backing down nearly as much when people tell him he can't do something. And I think he's going to be even more that way as it's his way of making Charlie's death have meaning.

And I love the humor that he brings too, of course.

Has no one else here thought the possibility of the visitation being for Michael?
He is set to return in episode four "Eggtown (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0994364/)."


Yeah. To bad he goes nuts (if the future holds). :)

why would NO ONE show up for micheals visitation though? And I know Jack is a glutton for guilting himself to ridiculous extents, but this is different. You can tell that he feels like its HIS fault. I dont think it makes much sense for it to be micheal.

Because Michael betrayed them all by murdering Anna Lucia and Cynthia; lying to everyone; releasing Ben and handing Jack, Kate, James and Hurley to the Others. Take your pick. :/

Now that's it's clear those people came to get Ben, it may have been his funeral

There were more connections to the Find815.com ARG in this episode as well: The R.O.V. finding 815; The Hotline Number on the screen; The Tunisian Newspaper; and in the previous episode, Hurley was at the Santa Rosa Mental Institute (a bottle of pills from said institute was seen in Find815).

But my favorite clue was this:

Ben: "Her name is Charlotte Staples Lewis!"

Charlotte Staples Lewis = C.S. Lewis (Clive Staples "Jack" Lewis), famed author and Christian scholar.

Does anyone know of any other connections Charlotte might have to one of my favorite authors?
When Ben was masquerading as "Henry Gale," claiming to have crashed-landed in a balloon, this was an allusion to Dorothy Gale of the story the Wizard of Oz, in which the wizard had arrived and departed on a hot-air balloon. This was further built on in the episode "Man Behind The Curtain."

So I wonder what allusions pertain to Charlotte Lewis? :)

That is so smart! Wow.... Never would have thought about that in a million years.  8)

Yeah...good catch man! CS LEwis...brilliant!

The guy in the coffin may well have been Michael.
There's a rumour that's likely true that if you stop / pause the frame where Jack is reading the obituary, it says its for one "John Lantham" (sp?) from New York who leaves behind a teenage son. I know Michael is from New York, and he's the only LOST member with a teenage son.

Michael gets my vote too...I don't think they'll kill off Locke...even in the end. And Ben...he'll be lucky to see another episode. hehe. Actually...I feel more strongly that it is Ben in the coffin, but Michael is a good choice too.

The preview for next weeks episode said we'll learn who one of the other Oceanic 6 is in this coming episode. Can't wait!


What do you folks think is the significance about a ghost-talker, a pilot (ok, that's obvious) a physicist, an anthropologist and a hired gun looking for Ben? What did he mean by "I've got a man on their boat"? He couldn't have sent someone, because he's been captured by Lockes team this whole time since Naomi arrived. Did he ALWAYS have a spy? Who do they work for? (who is that creepy black bald dude!?)

Thank you. :) I didn't notice it until my second time watching it and I might not have notice it if it weren't for my knowledge of the "S" in C.S. standing for "Staples."


I forgot about him living in NY. I'm not too certain it's Michael either, I'm just bouncing ideas. :)
But I would find it odd that Ben would be given a traditional burial. He's lived on The Island all of his life and has no other family (sans the Others); his mother died and he killed his father. No one would miss him (expect possibly Jack ;) ) if Darma--or whomever the boat-people may be--disposed of his body by some other means.


My theory: Miles (Ghost-hunter) will have something to do with all the paranormal happenings on The Island (Boone, Mr. Eko's brother and Ben's Mother appearing from beyond the grave, and of course, The Monster).
I've read that Daniel Faraday (The Physicist) is named after physicist, Michael Faraday:
Now the other two are more of a mystery to me. They seem to be the only two of the team that really wanted to come to The Island (Frank because he was the scheduled pilot for that flight; Charlotte because of her discovery of the Darma-Hydra polar bear). Dan and Miles seem less interested.

The Black Man (perhaps The Haitian's brother ;) ), is the biggest mystery to me. The man who was on the phone with Frank (the pilot) in the flashback sound like him, though (same deep voice).

yeah...dude is really creepy! Great casting!  :P

New discovery!

The mysterious "Black Man" is named "Matthew Abaddon" (played by Lance Reddick (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0714698/). Abaddon of course having very deep Biblical connotations:


:)

Reveal your sources! Or be gone!  :P

:)

Sorry for not posting clearly enough. It was late and I was in a rush to finish.
My first post links to the actor's IMDb page where, if you scroll down, you'll find his LOST credit as "Matthew Abaddon."

At the time I had posted, Neither Wikipedia or the LOST-Wiki had anything that I could find concerning the character, but they now have something on this page (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_Abaddon#Matthew_Abbadon) for Wikipedia and this page (http://lost.wikia.com/wiki/Matthew_Abaddon) for the LOST-Wiki. Exciting stuff, if I do say so myself. :)

Addendum: Well now I feel foolish. He introduced himself as "Matthew Abaddon" to Hurley (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CL5Ocmp0F4g) at the Mental Institute in the first episode.

C.S. Lewis!!!

Brilliant!

I'm just as foolish for missing that then. I usually don't miss that kind of thing. I DID miss the part where the 'other' dude beside Hurley saw Charlie as well. That didn't sink in at the time. Am I right? The other guy told Hurley that Charlie was there?

Well I guess to be fair, Hurley didn't catch the guys name the first time either. Remember he asked "What was your name, again?" right before asking for a card. He says it so fast in that scene. :/

And yes, the other patient was the one who pointed Charlie out to Hurley. (http://youtube.com/watch?v=_cocc_HEJWw) It's because of that scene that I believe that Hurley was really seeing some apparition of Charlie--whether it really be Charlie's spirit or a manifestation of the Island (as Boone appeared to Locke) and/or possibly the Monster (as Yemi appeared to Mr. Eko).

I LOVE LOST.

Micheal left the island on a better note with the other castaways than he should have, in my opinion. They were fairly cool. Besides why would jack be so stricken if it were micheal? unless he like killed him and didnt tell anyone. ( i dont mean that seriously btw lol)

and ya the thing with the other patient seeing charlie creeped me out....but....im wondering. was that patient leonard by any chance? i cant remember. CUz leonard was the one that hurley got the numbers from....so...maybe there would be some kind of connection. and remember libby was there too...

I just checked it out. According to the credits (http://imdb.com/name/nm2900585/) it's a new character named Lewis (http://lostpedia.com/wiki/Lewis). But now I'm wondering what has become of Leonard, since he was not at the Connect-Four game-table. Hurley can be seen playing it with some other patient _{(see video in previous post)} who does not appear to be Leonard; Leonard wore glasses and didn't have a hat and this patient wasn't constantly repeating "4,8,15,16,23,42" as Leonard did. It's been three years since they crashed on the Island--a lot could've happened to Leonard since then. Where is he?

Now I'm hearing that the man in Jacob's rocking chair (http://lostpedia.com/wiki/Jacob#Hurley_meets_Jacob) during this seasons first episode was none other than Jack's dad, Christian Shephard. Could it be? The credits list John Terry (who plays Christian) in that specific episode (http://imdb.com/title/tt0994348/fullcredits#cast), but then again Michael is also listed there. o_0

YA i noticed micheals name in the episode but didnt see him!!!!

ANNNNDDDDDDD
I cant remember their names. But the guy that Ben met when he was a kid. The dark haired kinda cute guy with long hair....is the same guy as the one that recruited Juliet to the island.....its been driving me NUTS

I wonder if jack and clarie will ever find out they are related lol

remember the episode where Hurley had an imaginary friend from the mental institution?

He was on the island, trying to get hurley to jump off the cliff?

http://lostpedia.com/wiki/Imaginary_Dave

It would have been freaky if he was in the mental institution now too.

I remember but I think it would've distracted and--not to mention--discredited Charlie's appearance. It's been a while since I've seen that episode but I think they made a big deal about Hurley overcoming his "demons" in the form of Dave and coping with Reality.

Last night's ep: All I can say is "Dude! ... DUDE!"

Good point, Kneesh...I meant to bring that up here earlier. The guy that recruited Ben in the first place has remained ageless since Dharmas demise and to this day....what is up with him?

Anyone comment on last nights episode? WOW!! So Sayid is the other one of the Oceanic 6...so we KNOW Kate, Hurley, Jack and Sayid...two more remain. I didn't count BEN because he wasn't "Oceanic" and we don't even know how he got off the island, if it was even with the other 6. But Ben obviously isn't the dead guy in the coffin in last years finale. Do you think it's John Locke? the obituary said John Lantham...is that his real name?  So much speculation, but I thought that was cool that Sayid is Ben's hitman now...assassinating those on the list of people who are 'trying to find the survivors and the island' according to Ben.

Wild.  And what is up with that 'payload drop'???  It was off by 31 minutes? How did the chopper fly when every other attempt has seen malfunction?

I think it's gotta do with the time-travel/rift stuff that I've been reading about lately. (Was that in this thread? Or somewhere else? Too lazy to check. Zzzzzzzzzzzzz.....)

While I'm not yet convinced that it would be Ben, last night's episode doesn't entirely rule him out. The Flash-forwards aren't linear. Remember, in this seasons first episode, when Jack visited Hurley he hadn't hit rock-bottom yet. and
The events depicted in last nights episode could very well be before the events of last seasons finale. In fact I believe that Jack's is one of the climaxes in that timeline--eventually and inevitably leading them back to the Island where the rest of either the Fifth or Sixth Season take place.

The Helicopter is not the only vessel to escape the Island. Ben and the Others had a submarine; this was one of the ways how they were able to recruit more people (Juliet, Tom, Mikhail(sp?) etc.). and Michael and Walt were able to leave (or so we are lead to believe) thanks to a bearing that Ben had given them. So apparently one can escape the Island if they take a specific bearing as Daniel Faraday strongly cautioned Frank Lapidus to take the exact same as what they followed to arrive at the Island "no matter what!".

The time-dilation most likely has something to do with the "electro-magnetism, geographical unique" to the Island* and I believe it will account for things such as why some attempts to escape have failed (Desmond's boat), there being on the Island for approx. 90 days while the actual show has spanned four years (just a wild guess), Jack's perpetual 5 o'Clock Shadow and yes, Hurley's inability to lose weight. :)

_{*Flashback episode with Desmond in Season 2. Sorry I don't remember which.}

ok... last night's episode was the best so far.

Amen, brother!

Yeah, I knew you'd bring up the "flash-forwards aren't linear" argument, but for some reason I don't want it to be Ben...I'm starting to think he'll become a key player as a 'good guy' in the final seasons... remember... unlike any of the other survivors, Ben never had anyone killed. Ben never even really harmed anyone. Why is that? We know he killed everyone on the Dharma team..he is capable...but...for some reason he seems to have an innocent quality about him. I actually WOULD trust Ben over others.

Here's something I was wondering what you thought, j.c...  When Locke held the gun at Ben and asked him "What is the black smoke?" ...Ben pointedly stated " I DON'T KNOW".

Do you believe Ben?

That is a very good question.

It's true that Ben hasn't directly harmed any of the Survivors physically but he's still a master manipulator who to never seems to cease getting on Jack or Sawyers nerves--and the wrath and beating that soon follows each time. However wasn't it Ben who arranged for purging of the initial survivors? If I remember correctly the plan was to eliminate the strongest ones (and the ones not on Jacob's List) so they would not be as big a threat to him.

With all that being said, I believe Ben was telling the truth to Locke. His life was at stake and I don't think he would lie unless he was terrified of something more than death. Also, Juliet stated to Jack that "They know of it but don't know what it is." There just as small on this Island as the Survivors and it's a BIG Island.

Dude...I'd love to have you sit next to me each episode. LOL!  ;)

Thank you. :)
Unfortunately I'm having to watch a recording of each episode early the next morning (usually around 3:00am) because of work.

Um....

Are y'all forgettin that he shot Locke with a gun?

Awesome episode though!

Definitely some kinda time rift goin on!

It would definitely be an interesting twist if Ben really was the "good guy", albeit an evil, twisted good guy.

Oops. I stand corrected, Carey. :-[

It's all good, without you I wouldn't have gotten the C.S. Lewis reference, and so many other intriguing insights!

Just don't let your guard down around Ben...he'll put a cap in ya!

So I was just watching Keeping The Faith and look who I found in it:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=wjecNYb8ag0

Look familiar? :laugh:

Aw man, was it 31 minutes? I was really hoping it would have been 108 minutes. That would have been CREEPY. I didn't catch the actual times but was hoping to find them in a screencap.

So, last night we had the people from the boat arrive to the island.

It seems they are normal people from the us with no connections with dharma.

Anyone know why they are there??  why are they after ben??

What makes you think they have no connections with dharma? We don't know that yet...and don't forget...if anyone wants Ben, it'd be Dharma. He wiped out the Dharma collective that was on the island. Remember!?  ;)

Now, Greg, I have to say. I would never imagine you'd be a lost fan. I think we have tons of things to talk about. Lol

And I completely agree with you. But now I'm trying not to think of any theory about that 'cause everytimeI think of something , then I discover I'm wrong. So, now I just let them surprise me!

Lol

heheh... 8)  Did I say I was a fan? I hate this show! LOL I hate that it's going to go on and on until 2010...grrrr. I really want it to be done now. It's too addictive!

Oh, but there are connections. At least for Charlotte. Remember the polar bear that was excavated in the desert? It was wearing a collar or something with a familiar-looking medallion on it.

Yea I do remember that.


I aggree.

So Kate took Claire's son?

WOW! Yeah...what a bomb!
I watched last weeks episode just before and there was a 'reminder hint' that Desmond had "seen" Claire and Aaron get on that helicopter and get rescued...which made me believe that she must be one of the Oceanic 6.
But... with Kate NOT BEING PREGNANT after all, and calling her child Aaron at the end of last nights show I'm stumped! Claire didn't get rescued? She gave her son to Kate? This is wild! Kate wanted NO PART of that baby last night.

So...when Kate said to Jack in the last episode of last year, "I better get back...he's probably wondering where I am.." she likely meant Aaron (not Sawyer or some other 'lover').

Locke continues to stump me...but he seems peaceful enough unless you are blatantly trying to undermine his goal (which is the problem as he doesn't really have one yet).

Kate battled the demons last night, but I can't understand what would make her want to face the courts and the people after she learned that she'd be hunted down by the law from Miles. She seemed to accept that she was better off on the island until Sawyer showed relief that she wasn't pregnant....then she stormed off. So...what's her deal? I feel for Sawyer man.

It's also obvious that the chopper is caught in this so-called time rift/continuum and will take an extra day or so to make it back to the freighter. Next week's episode looks thrilling!

What he said! ahaah
But yeah, crazy episode lastnight... that's all I have to say

ok that desmond episode was quite good! lots  of new questions.

yes I LOVED that episode.

Time Travel Rocks!

I was surprised how much that episode actually ANSWERED!
We now know why Penny knew he was alive and lost on some island somewhere...and why she never lost hope.
We can gather that because Daniel Faraday knows about Desmond and his future, Naomi having that picture means that they were looking for Desmond only to find this unique island that made time travel possible...and are not associated with a rescue effort by Penny (as we kind of already knew).

Time is different for the islanders. We knew that too...but this is kind of cool to learn firsthand from Faraday.

The big question... WHAT IS BEN'S ROLE IN THIS? The rescuers want to study the island and the 'time travel' elements for sure...but they are REALLY looking for Ben for some reason.

Another thing that bothers me....the island isn't unique because of time travel. Faraday successfully guessed that Desmond had been exposed to 'high levels of radiation'...we know that was AFTER he turned the key in the 'hatch'. The radiation burst was a result of the subsequent explosion....but what was DHARMA doing there before that? What ELSE is the island? The island was 'special' before that incident...we still don't know what though, or if the 'rescuers' may know.

My manager and I had a chat about Jack/Aaron/Kate. We agree that the reason Jack is a torn apart alcoholic in the future is because he is torn with guilt over leaving Claire (and the others) behind. This is why he refuses to see Kate on her terms... seeing Aaron would remind him of how he's 'betrayed' everyone else. The Oceanic 6 have obviously LIED to the media about what happened. That's straight up betrayal, no matter how many scary black guys named after the Demon Abbadon have intimidated you. ;)

Well, yes...they lied...that's nothing. Now they're even KILLING to protect the other survivors if the FutureFlash from Ben/Sayid can be trusted.
I agree, Jack is racked with guilt about leaving them, and about Kate/Sawyer...but don't think for one minute that he knows about Aaron.
I believe he thinks Kate had Sawyers baby....because she made it a big deal about 'seeing' the baby. She wants Jack to accept the baby regardless of who the father is and doesn't want to let him off the hook by saying it's actually Claire's baby. She needs Jack to accept her past relationship with Sawyer, and letting him know that it's Aaron would mean he doesn't have to deal with that point. At this point, I don't believe he got to find out anything about what transpired between Claire and Kate before they make it off the island. This time travel/warp thing, unfortunately, gives the writers a wide berth as far as creative freedom in developing the rest of the story and explaining away a lot of little problems and annoyances that remain unanswered.

Feel free to disagree or comment further.

The problem with that theory is that it takes approximately nine months to have a baby. It's already been about three months or more (I don't exactly remember) that they've been on The Island, so Aaron would be at least one-years old in the time that Kate could even plausibly be able to give birth. She would have to pass Aaron as being ridiculously premature and/or having a very overactive pituitary gland. Plus--if we are to assume that she has adapted Claire's story of giving birth on The Island--she'd have to somehow fake giving childbirth in order to convince Jack that it's her child. o_0


Does it? Everything I've seen (so far) greatly implies that they're on a fixed timeline that cannot be changed ("Destiny has a way of course-correcting things"). The only proven exceptions (that I've noticed) is in Desmond delaying of Charlie's death, but ultimately, Charlie still dies as he is destined to be. So anything that a traveler does in the past is already destined to happen (see The Novikov self-consistency principal (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Novikov_self-consistency_principle)). In other words, John Calvin was right. :)

Yeah, very good points.

All of these things can be overlooked by the world at large because they don't know what happened on the island, but Jack WAS there and knows Kate was not pregnant.

They also would have came back together from the island with Aaron in tow.

There is no way Jack wouldn't already know it was Aaron if they all came back from the island together.

All I meant was that TIME PASSES DIFFERENTLY TO PEOPLE ON THE ISLAND. The sun still rises and sets with noon in the middle, but Faraday explains that the passage of time is not the same on this island. If Desmond is popping into the past to effect his present (or is it the future?) then this tends to open a lot of opportunistic creativity to the writers now. Face it, Faraday is obviously doing this time travel stuff too...in the last segment of the episode we see his journal reads "Desmond will be my constant".  ::)

So... I still see anything possible as far as the whole 9month scenario/Kate's fake pregnancy. Also, why are you already assuming they get off the island together? We don't even know if they are rescued by these 'freighter people'. Perhaps Desmond or Faraday or ? changes something in the past to affect their rescue or ability to get off. That's what I'm talking about 'creative freedom' resulting from this latest episode.

Yes, time does work differently on the island than it does in the rest of the world.

...or is it a section of space between the island and everything else?  

Either way it's related to the island, and it is a time thang. 


Or maybe he's planning on doing Time Travel now that he has his constant? 

Either way, yes, Faraday will be time traveling too. 

What's strange is, Faraday seemed to make it seem that it had to be someone who meant a lot to you.  If it were just anyone in both the past and the future, Desmond could have just used Faraday as he was in both.  It seemed as if it Faraday was not enough, and he had to still find Penny because of his strong love for her.

If Desmond is going to be Faraday's constant as his diary stated, what strong emotional attachment do they share that would make Desmond his constant/anchor?


I'm not assuming these freighter people are the ones who rescue them.  It may well be Desmond or Faraday that make it happen some other way, and it doesn't have to be the freighter, it can be a plane, submarine, whatever.

I am assuming they HAVE to get off the island together because of this whole "Oceanic 6" thing, with no other survivors (as far as the world at large knows.)

Maybe they had different helicopter trips to the boat (or whatever they left on) with a slight time differential, but not 9 months, and they didn't pick 3 or 4 of them up and take them home, and then come back months later and get the other 2 or 3.

All 6 came HAD to come back to the world at the same time.

It's alright for us to have differing theories/opinions. I wasn't trying to disprove you, I was just expressing my doubts based on opposing evidence. I'm sorry if I wasn't clear enough.

With that being said, Is Desmond actually altering the Timeline? Like I wrote in my previous post, the previous episodes seem to imply that he is not and that anything that he does--even if it is partially caused by events from the future (a Causality Loop)--still results in the same outcome (ie. Charlie's Death).

This is confirmed by the Production Notes for last weeks episode (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Constant#Production).

Here's an except _{(emphasis added by me)}:

Yes, I noticed that too. I wonder if he has and if it relates to how much more calm & composed he is in the past; Naomi's referring to him as a "Headcase" in the Second episode "Confirmed Dead"; or the cardgame he was playing with Charlotte.

Check out the previews and read the synopses to this weeks episode:

Preview 1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ls6QJlzi7wg)
Preview 2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oBNDbJjShVo)


Perhaps the note in Daniel's journal is in case "Anything goes wrong" with his upcoming mission with Charlotte.


I hope your not offended but I hope that you're wrong about the so-called "creative freedom." That's a cheap trick that writers use when they're lazy and have run out of ideas. It's akin to when Soap-Opera's "resolve" a plot by stating that "It was all a dream."
More recently, this trick has been applied to the comic-book "Amazing Spider-man" where Peter Parker/Spider-man's ENTIRE relationship with Mary Jane has been erased by the use of "Magic" via a deal they made with the Devil Mephistos in order to save Aunt May who has been near-death for the approximately 50th time.  :hurt:

Digital Aura - I revised my post a bit, and I hope you aren't offended with me either, I'm just disagreeing with your theory based on my own thoughts, but I obviously have no more idea than anyone else.

We'll find out more tonight!


Yeah, this whole Mephisto thing is gay!

I'm only going to read Ultimate Spiderman regularly now, it's much more realistic.

I think that last week's episode showed that time on the island and away from the island passes the same. So, Carey's donut theory of a time-space distortion surrounding the island would seem to have some merit.

Sayid isn't surprised to find out that it's Christmas Eve of 2004 when he sees the calendar on the freighter. At first, I thought that perhaps the crew had put that up for Sayid and Desmond's benefit--to keep them from finding out that it's really 2008 in the rest of the world. However, that can't be because Desmond told Penny that he'll call her on December 24, 2004. Unless he just happened to be calling around Christmas time of a later year and Penny just didn't say "I thought you were going to call me X years ago", it seems that it is in fact Dec 24, 2004 in Penny's part of the world too.

The whole One More Day (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spider-Man:_One_More_Day) debacle has effectively stopped me from buying any Mainstream Spidey book--which would mean just the one Mainstream book (Amazing Spider-man).


Well, more believable, at least. Symbiotes, Clones and Mutants withstanding. ;)

I still have only read a few Ultimate Spidey books. I'm one of those guys who likes to read things from the beginning. So the Ultimate Spider-man Trade-Paperbacks are on my list of things to read, but not necessarily at the top of my list of expenses.

In addition to that, Joe Quesada himself _{(EIC of Marvel and the man who erased SM/MJ's marriage from existence)}--ironically enough--"suggested that fans angered by the controversial “One More Day” storyline – in which Spider-Man’s marriage to Mary Jane was retroactively dissolved -- and looking to read about a happily married Peter and MJ should turn their attention to “Amazing Spider-Girl. (http://www.comicbookresources.com/news/newsitem.cgi?id=12745)”


I noticed that too. Hmm, I wonder if the time-dilation between The Island and the rest of the World is in constant stability. Or would the differences in time be exponentially greater if Daniel ran his test a second time? :smiley25:

I don't find the Amazing Spidergirl to be all that good though.

Ultimate is very very good.  You might be able to check it out in trade paperback from your local library.  It's available at mine.

Back to Lost...

Great observation on 2004 GLM!

I think there are still a lot of questions to be answered on the time distortion, we will see.

I wonder if it's always been there, or just since the Electromagnetic explosion?

Also, this is only one of the island's secrets, there are so many!

Guys...its a tv show...I'm not offended in the least...my use of CAPS was only to stress the important part of the sentence. i wasn't raising my voice... :laugh:

Ultimately, I don't disagree with any of you. Faraday said "you can't change the future". But the future dictates what they WILL HAVE TO DO in the past (like training the mouse to do the maze). Faraday says, "I haven't taught her to do that yet! I was going to teach her this afternoon".
I do disagree about the baby. For some reason I do think somehow Jacks reaction to Kate and 'the baby' leads us to believe he DOESN'T KNOW. Kate didn't refer to the baby as Aaron. In fact, she told the lawyer point blank that she didn't want "her son" to be involved. Was if for his protection? Or the protection of her secret?

Next week we find out who the last of the Oceanic 6 is. Sun? The preview suggested she needed to leave the island in order to have her baby.

So..   1/ Jack 2/ Kate 3/ Hurley 4/ Sayid 5/ ??  6/ Sun??   (Did I miss something? Unless next week they reveal TWO more people then we are still short somehow. Aaron doesn't count...he wasn't on the Oceanic manifest, nor was Ben). Or do you think they include Ben? Theories? Conspiracies?

More importantly....WHO DOES BEN HAVE ON THAT BOAT!? (you'd better sit down for this he said...NOOOO! How mean to leave us hangin!!LOL) I think the person on the boat is ... BEN! oOoOoOh. Time travel!!  LOL...actually I have no clue.

We'll have to teach you how to use italics. :laugh:

Tastyfresh Lessons in "Netiquette." :)


It's interesting that you point that out since most of the episodes contain Flashforwards instead of Flashbacks.
What the characters do in the "future" dictates what they will do in the "present." That's a good observation.


She does call him Aaron at the very end of that episode. Though in the few times that I watched it, it sounded like she was saying Eric, but I think there was something wrong with the sound on my computer is why. :/

But I think know where you're getting at: She could have given him another name to be used in public.


Jin might be a likely choice.


Wow. I never even thought of The Mole possibly being Michael. I did figured it was someone Locke knows (or knew); Michael fits that category. One thing to keep in mind though, is that Michael's name would be on the flight-manifest along with everyone else's, so they might see him coming. And if Michael is the one on the boat, would Walt be on with him?

Since we know that it is someone Locke (in particular) knows, I wonder, could it be his Ex-Wife?


Wow! The connections just grow deeper and deeper in this series.
So according to Ben, Charles Widmore is after The Island so that he can exploit it. I was just a little disappointed by this because I was hoping that it was DHARMA trying to reclaim it's Island, but Widmore fits well into this.
This explains why The Maxwell Group--a subsidiary of Widmore Corp., as seen in the Find815 game--was looking for The Black Rock; and possibly how Penelope knows of The Island.

I know everyone's been focused on the Mythology of LOST, and as much as that interest me, I'm equally intrigued by the drama and character-pieces that are produced in this series. I'm very glad that Juliet finally expressed her feeling towards Jack--even though, if the Flashforwards are any indication, there relationship may not last long--I think he should be with her and her, him. They're a better match, in my opinion.

This was a great Flashback Episode. I never realized Ben could be so obsessive.

That's all I'll say for now.

This is still the first of three more seasons, so DHARMA could still show up later. In the meantime, I'm enjoying the new balance between the Mythology and Character-Pieces. And I look forward to the "War between Benjamin Linus and Widmore." :)

It's definitely Widmore, as they showed him in the preview to next weeks episode last night. He's a bad bad man....as we already know he's immoral trying to bribe Desmond to split, and his actions towards the man besides that fact. We saw him bidding at that auction for the "BLACKROCK" ship's log book last week too. What was that about?

It seems to me that everyone who is on that freighter is there for a different reason...I mean, Faraday/CSLewis seem to appreciate the island's scientific enigma, while Miles is there to exploit Ben and Widmore (if not on the boat, at least leading the expedition from home) is interested in the Black Rock. The heli pilot seemed to be doing it for his own reasons too, if you recall he was close to the Oceanic pilot who was supposedly flying 815.
This contributes to some confusion I have. Also, Naomi's flashback led us to believe that Abaddon was in charge, so what is the connection between Abbadon and Widmore?

Oh, and I wasn't denying that the baby is indeed Claire's son, Aaron. I was simply pointing out that Kate seems awfully careful about NOT saying his name in public...especially to Jack. I really don't think he knows. I can't wait to have more light shed on this.

Well he was clearly shown in last nights episode and Ben mentioned him by name.


Ah, so that's what it was. I noticed the picture of the boat but missed the mention of the logbook the first time watching it.
Well there's another connection: that very Logbook must be the one that was used in Find815 by Lord Talbot, which was instrumental in locating the remains of "Oceanic 815."

exactly! Although, I'm somewhat baffled by the writers noncomittal approach to using the find815 material. While some of the info is correct, like Widmore being involved and the plane wreckage being found...nothing from the web translates into the show as I thought it would. Somewhat disappointing, but not a big deal I guess.

Since nobody's mentioned it.......

Y'all notice who was seller/owner of the logbook?

Widmore is Abbadon's hireling. Abbadon does not act at all like a hireling, whereas Widmore, being Mister Money, would easily throw his resources to Abbadon's will if it meant a big return on that investment. ;)

Widmore? 'UNDER' someone else? No way. They may be working together, but I think they have their 'own' agendas. Abaddon isn't in charge of Widmore.

Penny's dad is the big bad...who woulda thought?

...but not Mr. JOHNSON!!! WHOA!!  who saw that comin! Or even Jin's death!! I'm stunned!

"WHOA!" is right! My fellow John (godlovesmaggots), you hit it right on the nose.
As soon as I heard Michael/Kevin's voice (and the ominous music playing in the background) I knew it was him.

Leading us to believe that Jin was still alive was sneaky, but I think they cheated in the way they just spliced Jin's flashback with Sun's flashforward. :\

I figured it was Michael, it had to be.

GLM already pointed it out  :)

Bummed about Jin  :'(

Question: Do you think that Jin is the last of the Oceanic 6? Or do they have one more to reveal?

At first, you'd think he'd be one of the six; however, if he was dead before returning (they brought his body back or he died/was killed en route), he wouldn't be since dead people make lousy survivors.

Oceanic 6 = Jack, Kate, Hugo, Sayid, Sun, and (?).

I think it's him and he died after he got back.

Since we don't know how or when he died though, you may be right, there may be one more out there!

It could still be Michael.

true!

While it's yet to be declared as such, I believe that Aaron is the last of the Oceanic Six. The news media (who likely created the term) wouldn't care whether he was on the manifest or not, he was the sixth one "alive and rescued".

Also, I don't believe for a second that Jin is dead. Apparently the date on his tombstone is the date of the 815 crash. Further, those who are still alive on the island (in the future) are listed as 'deceased' to the rest of the world. So they would all have tombstones, because their friends and family would have had funerals, believing them to be dead. Sun would have had to have done SOMETHING to keep up the cover story. That's why she was saying "I miss you so much."

Think about it - if you lose someone you love to death, it's hard and you grieve, but eventually you move on. But, imagine if your lover was stuck on an island that NOBODY ELSE knows about and you CANNOT REACH. That would be worse than losing someone to death. It would be a living, daily emotional torture with no resolution in sight.

Nice try...but Jin is dead. And they said that next week someone else will die! ARRRRGH!

But really, why would Sun go through the motions of visiting his grave to fake it for Hurley. Nahh...i say he's gone. But the mystery of HOW is certainly what's important here. Obviously  he died or was killed to protect her and the other survivors perhaps too. He makes a good hero, and so does Michael who must have a part here to redeem himself from the 'killing of Elizabeth and Anna Lucia. Should be interesting how he connects again with Ben. You can kind of see how Sayid gets drawn into this story as one of Ben's hirelings as well!

yeah jin is so dead

he is somehow gonna give his life to save sun or something.  he is a good guy.

You do have a sound theory, Rish. Though keep in mind that they could still be rescued before January 1st of 2005--It currently being December 24-25th of 2004 on the freighter.

What I found somewhat disturbing was when Hurley is at the door of Sun's apartment, he asks her "is anyone else is coming?", she says no and he says (in a relieved manner) "good."

Could Hurley have had something to do with the alleged demise of Jin?
Could it also be that--regardless of whether Jin is really dead or not--Sun and Hurley are now an item? :-\

Glad I'm not the only one who caught that John, I thought that was an odd reaction from Hurley too!

I had the same theory as to why, but I hope it's not true.

Yeah, I noticed that. Wasn't sure what to make of it, so didn't really think to bring it up. I'm doubtful of the romantic relationship. (At the grave site, Sun seemed too attached to Jin still to be involved with another man, especially an affair, if Jin's still alive.)

I'd think it more likely that Hurley was simply glad that the others weren't there because of all the screwed-up relationship stuff that they'd be dragging behind them. If you just want to have a nice visit, enjoying the birth of a new baby, you don't need folks around who'll just bring the drama.

Hurley and Sun? Didn't see that angle at all. LOL
Don't even care to think about that.
Hurley is fairly happy to do things alone, I didn't see anything strange about this reaction. I'm awaiting the whole Desmond vs. Widmore confrontation that's bound to happen now that the captain has revealed that info to Desmond. That should really send things into high gear. I'm really curious what the Captain might have been lying about...seeing as all indications tell us 'the captain is not to be trusted'.

Only from the perception of Michael, who has been indoctrinated by Ben. Where Ben seems to be just as trustworthy as Widmore, at this point.

You're assuming that Michael left them the note. Which could be right or could be wrong. ;)

Well Regina was guarding the door last time we saw the outside of said door. Then again she could've been looking for some chains while the note had been slipped through the door-vent. Man, how crazy that whole suicide sequence was.

It doesn't seem like it matters much now, but notice how George was the first on the freighter to be contacted via the Sat-Phone, then Regina--who said that George was "unavailable" (presumably after his temporal-rift side-effects had manifested). Now both are dead; not that I think that this bears anything ominous for anyone who has used the Sat-Phone. I just thought I'd point that out.

For those of us that just finished reading "Cell" by Stephen King, that does indeed sound quite ominous. ;)

Very perceptive!

not so... some of the crew (was it Faraday?) even warned them not to trust the captain.

Last night's episode was great! I felt like it actually answered some of my top questions without throwing in TOO MANY more. GREAT! NOw.....who killed Rouseau!?

I don't remember anyone else besides Michael warning them not to trust The Captain. Could you tell when anyone else did?


I have two theories:

1. Ben had instructed The Others to kill Eric(?) and Rouseau once they and Alex arrived. This way he can have Alex to himself and not worry about her getting pregnant.

2. The, probable, mercenaries from the boat are now on The Island (as part of Lapidus' "errand" from the last episode) were the ones shooting at them. I believe this is who Alex believes are the ones who shot at them and this could be why she said "Don't shoot! I'm Ben's daughter! I'm his daughter!" Of course The Others would already know that she's his daughter, so why else would she yell this?

The Sniper:

Either Ben set something up with the others, or it is the Mercs from the boat.

Both good guesses!

It is obvious that Alex thinks it's the Mercs since she shouted she was Ben's daughter, but it didn't look like she saw anyone yet, so she's just guessing too.

Good theories!

Re: trusting the captain...I could have sworn that message on the note to Sayid/Desmond was the second warning. Didn't Frank tell them to watch out for the captain? Besides...who was it they said 'if so and so answers the sat-phone, just hang up'. Someone they didn't want to talk to.

It all goes back to when Ben warned her that "They're after me; If the found out that you're my daughter they'll take you to try to get to me."


I can't truthfully say that I remember that. I'd have to go back and view the previous episodes to be sure, though. :)

It hasn't been mentioned here yet, but this is the last pre-Strike episode of LOST. There's a four week-long hiatus until the ninth episode. :(


Also, ABC is moving LOST to 10pm/9c (http://www.thefutoncritic.com/news.aspx?id=20080220abc01) so not to conflict with Grey's Anatomy. :D

Even better! (10 EST I mean....not that it's done for a month).  :(

Yeah, I don't why I'm upset about the time-change. I still won't be able to see each week until after work via a recording. :/